ep57 Listener questions #8: Project prioritization & sharing a GTD system

Transcript

Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.

Morten: Hi and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from GTD Nordic. I am Morten Rørvig and I'm here with my good friend and colleague Lars Rothschild Henriksen. Salamat siang, Lars. Sure.

Lars: Hi, Morten. Good to see you as always. And as always, looking forward to recording another episode for our listeners. Listeners and viewers out there. The purpose of this podcast is to help you learn GTD or becoming even better GTDers. So we hope that this episode supports you in that. And if you're new to GTD, we recommend you go back and listen to episodes 1 through 6 to get an introduction to the basics of GTD. This is episode number 57 of the podcast, and I'll throw it back to you, Morten, to share with our listeners what today's topic is.

Morten: Well, it's listener questions number 8. We've been doing 8 of these, or this is number 8. We've been doing 7 of these, and these are always interesting. So if you have a question for us, you can send us a listener question request at podcast@gtdnordic.dk. And today's question is an interesting one, isn't it, Lars? It's from Lauren and Chris in in sunny Florida, where they greet us in what we think is Danish. Hi from sunny Florida, Lars and Morten. Hi, Lauren and Chris. Would you do the honors reading their questions?

Lars: Yeah, so first of all, appreciate what I suspect is, is the Danish hi. So yeah, thanks.

Morten: Not hi in Norwegian, I understand this. Okay, they, they prefer you.

Lars: So Lauren and Chris say, I guess it's Lauren writing. She says, my husband and I have been listening to your podcast for over a year and we've learned so much from you both. Very happy to have found you on the internet. Great to hear that. Thanks so much. She says, we started our GCD journey in October 2019 and I've read David Allen's book multiple times, listened to all of the GCD podcast episodes, Next Actions Associates podcast and yours. And we haven't been able to find any guests or scenarios like ours. My husband and I are attached at the hip since we are business partners in multiple ventures, including real estate, landscape architecture design, and starting a green cemetery, in addition to having two children under five. Right now we share our complete GTD system, physical filing system, Google Calendars, Evernote for digital reference, and Todoist for next actions, which means that the entire system needs to be set up in a way that makes sense for both of us. This includes our weekly reviews that we do together, which to be honest, we have fallen off the wagon with the weekly reviews because they were taking at least 4 hours to complete. In parentheses, way too long and mentally exhausting. All in all, we have not been great about actually using Todoist because the context lists were so long. And in parentheses again, we have now made them less overwhelming by implementing the on-hold category. After listening to your listeners' question, the most recent one on projects and subprojects. Our GTD system still has a lot of room for improvement, but the main question is this: are we totally crazy for sharing a GTD system? And do you have any recommendations for us? Would love any feedback you have. All the best, Lauren and Chris from Florida.

Morten: And first and foremost, you're not crazy. But there might be room for improvement of the way to handle this. And in the pre-show, we discussed this briefly, Laurits, and we had, you know, different angles on how to attack this. And we do agree, I hope still, that it might be a good idea for them to, instead of having a fully integrated, fully shared system to, to both for the execution part in Engage when you're going to do something, how do you choose what to do, and for, for also for the planning, to clarify and organize part. Maybe a good idea to, to if not fully split, at least split parts of what you're doing because I said jokingly, and you're, I'm sure you're not Siamese twins even though if you're connected to the hip, you don't you don't share the same brain and it might be beneficial to split. But why, Lars? What is your take on how and why? Because they used Todoist and I know you are using the same system. So yeah, exactly.

Lars: Well, it's— I would start off with focusing on the fact that GTD is a personal productivity system. So trying to, you know, encapsulate more than one person simply improves or increases the complexity so much. And that's exactly what they were experiencing. So let's say you did a weekly review and it was a pretty heavy one that might take you 2 hours. Since you're both doing this together, it might be doubling that time. And I don't know about you, Morten, but I have not come across, or I've come across very few at least, companies that were able to maintain a somewhat shared GTD system across the people that work there. And at least if they did, they were very strict in when it was a shared part of the system and when it was a personal part of the system. So to give the, the personal aspect of this, I've been using Todoist for a while now, and a while back I was using it with my wife as well. So we still use it today for some of the shared projects. And the way we would have this set up is that I would have my list of projects, and on that list of projects, some of these were shared with my wife. Remodeling the bathroom in our summer house, for example, that would be one of them in there. So, that would mean that it would be visible on my projects list and it would be visible on her projects list. But then, what you would find related to that project, the next action, that would have to have someone assigned to it. So, there would be typically we have some sort of ownership for, you know, from the, from, for both of us. But I think in the end, they would land in, you know, either her category or mine. And I think that would come back to having a clear overview of the areas of the focus and responsibility and accountability. So, something like that would typically land mostly on my radar, but I want to keep that as a shared project for her to have her visibility as well. And there will be some next actions as part of that that would require her attention, and that would in the end land on her list. So I think for the overview part, it's great to have that shared list of projects, or at least partly shared, so you know what one person is doing and what the other is doing. But having that list, you know, ultimately, if we were to be really strict about it, Let's say we weren't using a system where we were able to share those things. Well, then we would have both have the same project on each of our lists. And the next action for one would be waiting for the other. That would always be the case as long as we're working on this project. I'm waiting for you to go to IKEA to buy the next things that we need for this project, or waiting for me to follow up with the carpenter to finalize the last part of the remodeling thing. So it would always be one action on one's project, or one action on my list and one action on on her list from that perspective. So I think that in the end, it comes back to the clarity that you get from having that shared overview of every responsibility, having your own projects list and not, you know, mixing things. Because I'm sure that in their case as well, she does mention that they have shared lists of next actions. And I'm sure they're long because obviously this is a two-people system in one, right? So it would be— would would be to be expected that there would be long lists. So I imagine also, as you were hinting at in the beginning, that it would be difficult to pick what to do because when you have such a long list.

Morten: And what might be clarified for you might not be clarified for your partner. So, because we are, you know, different human beings, all of us, unless they are Siamese twins, which I hope they're not. But they're, even though if you're connected by the hip to another person, and by that, I think they try to allude to the fact that they are working very close. But you are an individual. Your brain works differently from everybody else's brain. And we mentioned this Kairos Cognition test or survey many times on the podcast. And people process information differently and people interpret information differently. And they are inspired differently by different things. And if I create a, Next action for, you know, if I am a high associative, I need every trick in the book to help me be attracted to my next actions. I would use, for instance, exclamation marks and heart and, you know, emojis and whatever I can do to make myself do it. While another person who is highly sequential might just want the pure facts. I don't need motivation. Just give me the facts and I will start work on this. And of course, I'm talking about two extremes here, but still, we think differently. And if I clarify, let's say that we were working very tightly together. We are not doing that today, but if we work, we're connected by the hip and I made a next action, it might not even make sense to you what needs to be done here. Because you don't have the— if we are not together all the time, might be that they are, but well, or often. But if you are not together all the time, it might be that thinking to create a next action is not done together but individually. And my next actions might not make sense to you, or they are not phrased in a way that attracts you, or, you know, yeah, that actually gets you to get stuff done. I'm reminded of Todd Brown in UK, is the master trainer in the United Kingdom. He says often that he, when he makes next actions, he makes plans for the future him to be happy. He will be thankful for the next action he created that was so easy to make, you know, to do. When you engage with something, it should be really easy. And if you don't take that into consideration, maybe you are slowing each other down by, what did you mean about this? What is this next action? What does it mean? So it might not be a problem, but if you have that problem, considering splitting your system is good, I think. I don't know.

Lars: Yeah, and I think that would be the recommendation going forward to see how they could, you know, because I'm sure that would take time. And if they've been doing this over a number of years, and obviously they're used to some of this, at least they've been doing it for 2 years, I think. So having that shared overview is probably helpful for them. And I'm sure in many businesses it would be nice to also have that kind of overview and and be able to see what we're making progress on, what we are working on right now. So I think as a starting point for them, I would look at the areas of focus. I'm sure they have an idea of this already. They have multiple businesses. I'm sure they know what the areas of focus would be. So try to get an overview of that and figure out who owns what. Where are my responsibilities? Where are yours? Where do we overlap? And how can we then figure out who does what in that perspective? And then, you know, taking that new sort of filter maybe to look at your projects list and say, okay, so who owns what, who would move one thing forward and try to assign those things. And now that they mentioned that they use Todoist, there are options in there. I don't know, it could sound like they might have the same user and would be sharing that. So in this case, they might need to have— they could play around with several separate contexts or something like that. So they would know what's my computer, this computer Lauren, and computer Chris. So, I know which one to go for when I have a chance to export from my list. Or if they had separate users, then you can go in and assign and say, okay, so this one is assigned to me, or this one is assigned to my better half. So, that is an option in there as well that shows up once you share a project.

Morten: My gut feeling tells me that they would be better off to have their, you know, separate accounts. And then, yeah, definitely. So, I want to go and talk a little about the weekly review and how long time it takes. And because they, they write— can you read that again, Loris?

Lars: Yeah, so this includes our weekly reviews that we do together, which, to be honest, we have fallen off the wagon with the weekly reviews because they were taking at least 4 hours to complete, in parentheses, way too long, and mentally Exhausted.

Morten: Yeah. No kidding. 4 hours weekly review.

Lars: Yeah.

Morten: No, so what I'm thinking is that if they split the system, the weekly review time would probably go down as well. That might help them with this because you will only review your things and you might want to do a joint review on the joint projects that you are working on. Exactly.

Lars: Excellent.

Morten: But, but for, you know, in the general thinking of weekly reviews, one of the reasons they take a long time is because you don't clarify and organize during the week. And this is a common mistake a lot of people do. They capture stuff and they don't clarify every 24 hours, which is the recommended 24 to 48 hours. So one time every day or every second day, you should Clarify and organize everything that has come to you that you might want to do something about, and then just clarify everything so that you have squeaky clean inboxes everywhere. If you do that properly, clarify with the side outcome if there's more than one action step, and then next actions for each of the projects. If you do that thoroughly throughout the week, the weekly review does not come, you know, overwhelmingly long and complex. And if you use my— I refer to my son as teaching me seriously, are you going to do this ever seriously? Why would you put this on any list? And just to be clear on, you know, if you have a thought It's good to capture it, but if you clarify and organize it into someday, maybe, just ask yourself seriously, will I ever do something about this? I think that is a very good, very good idea to run it by the, what I call it, bullshit filter, where you are actually thinking about seriously, am I going to do something about this? Because if you put something into your system, it will It's a safe place to have it, but if you're never going to do it, don't put it in there, or put it in someday maybe and clean it out when clarity comes when you look at it. Because I see so many systems that become bloated. I'm sure when you coach people, I'm sure you see the same thing for GTD alumni who's read the book or been to a seminar, you come back and their systems are hundreds of items. And hundreds of next actions connected to a lot of— So, the project on hold is a good way to park things that you are going to do something with, but not right now. And then active project, that would be just projects on home or work. And then someday maybe make sure it doesn't get out of hand. This is because the more you put on your list, the more you need to review them. The longer time it will take. So take out the trash.

Lars: Yeah. Now, you know, from my perspective, um, obviously we don't know what is actually taking that long. So the week review has many different components. Uh, it could be getting to, to zero, and that's, that's probably, as you say, the most common one. But I would guess since they are working together on this, that they hopefully wouldn't sit together in that weekly review and walk through every email together and decide on it. I would hope that at least one would take the ownership of that and get to zero, and then they could discuss the more higher-level perspectives like, like projects. But so if that is the case, then obviously it sounds like the system has grown to be too big. So like you said, either the projects, it could be the someday maybes, whatever it is that is taking up that amount of time, I would maybe try to just, you know, time it. If this is consistent that takes more than 4 hours, see what's taking that long. And look into that and see how you could then improve that. And also, you know, as we, when we sometimes, when we coach people, if we have different scenarios where we coach, as you know, and one scenario is the executive and executive assistant. So trying to make their work together most optimal. And one of the recommendations is there from that is to do the separate reviews and then come together and do a joint one as needed. And I would probably suggest the same to Lauren and Chris to see if they could do that, do their own, and when they have their own systems to review, then review those and then maybe do a quick review together afterwards. Maybe, you know, flag some of the projects that we just need to check in, see how these are going, or the most important ones. Maybe I keep a list of those so I know what to check in on with my better half in this case. So, so maybe that would be one way to try to do this a bit, a bit differently, and hopefully that could help loosen things up and make GTD work better for them.

Morten: Yeah, and, and I'm reminded also maybe the possibility of making an agenda for the other person so that you can, when you are reviewing your own stuff, you're reminded of, well, what is this? I'm unclear on this. Just then make an agenda for item for, for discussing on the joint review or a joint meeting later. And raise them so that you get them out of your head and into your system somewhere so that you can, you know, all this, how about this project? What are we going to do here? I'm unclear on this. Who's got the next step? What is our desired outcome really? And, well, I think we are touching on something here. And I would also suggest that when they do their reviews, that it will not be in the same room. Because I know, you know, we recommend people to have a weekly review buddy or a friend, an accountability partner for your GTD practice. And one of the things I highly recommend when people do this is that don't talk. If you're in the same room, don't talk until you are in agreement on that. We are both finished now. Now we can open our mouths and discuss what we did. And I would do the same thing for them to say that don't Don't talk to each other before you are at the end and make notes of what you need to raise with the other partner so that you can, you know, you don't have to— because I know me, I'm highly associative. If you give me, you know, a challenge or problem, I will deep dive and dig into that, and it's difficult to get out. Rabbit holes is my everyday life, and I need my sequential part to say that, hey dude, get out of there. Now you're in a rabbit hole. And since we are, you know, we are, I don't know if this is, I don't, this rings maybe not real true to people who listen to us, but I'm a low talker.

Lars: What?

Morten: Yeah. Yes. Thanks for that reaction, Lars. But no, but I really, I am. High Observer, High Listener, Low Talker. So, but that I am, I'm, when I, when I talk, I get a little smarter, but not a lot. But at the same time, it feels good to discuss things. So if we have a problem, we can, you know, discuss it and raise it and look at it different angles. And then it's clearer for both of us, maybe what we need to do about anything. But when you are in a different place, you are just interrupting each other. So if you are working on something that is, you know, your brain is trying to analyze a situation, a project, areas of responsibility, trying to understand what the next step here is or what is really our desired outcome. Are we on the right track for achieving that? Do we need an adjustment somewhere? And then in the middle of that, I go, Lars! 'Hey, I just realized something.' And that might work in a podcast, but not in a weekly review. Do you agree with me?

Lars: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I know that one. And I forget now what the syndrome they called it, but there was one office.

Morten: Intrapreneurship.

Lars: Yeah. And I think they, so they had their own name for it. They had noticed this, noticed that and were working on avoiding that. Hey, I just thought of syndrome.

Morten: Kind of— yeah, yeah. Agenda Forest is beautiful lists for that.

Lars: Yes, exactly. Get those agenda lists up and running so you get again the separate systems. And also on that note, I am on the way to the office this morning. I was listening to Making It All Work and she mentions that they have read David Allen's book multiple times. So I'm guessing that would be the GTD book, Getting Things Done. But I'm wondering if they might also benefit from reading Making making it all work. At least it would add some more perspective to some of the things that they are dealing with. And one of the things that they were— part of the book I was at when I drove to the office this morning was David was referring to a client that they had worked with. And that client, as part of when employees finished the seminar, they would get a small roll of yellow police tape for them to signal when they were doing the weekly review. They could use the yellow police tape. And obviously, they The key here was more to support the culture and allow people to say, 'Please don't interrupt me right now. This is important. This is an important part of how we work.' So you could, I don't know, place that on your screen or whatever they might have done with that tape. But that really just underlines what you were just saying and trying to allow people to have their weekly review separately.

Morten: Yeah, I do totally agree with you then. And any final thoughts that we might give our listeners?

Lars: No, I'm just curious to hear how this would go. I hope they will keep us updated because this is a really, you know, we're happy to hear that they have, you know, multiple businesses running. They are parents. They have, you know, probably a good solid system with a lot of good things in there. So they have a great starting point, I think. And it's just, you know, this will be a really big impact on their system and hopefully really help them a lot. So I'm hoping that they will keep us up to date on how this—.

Morten: Please, please do keep us up to date. I'm sure that at some points we could come back to you. And let me see, it's Lauren and Chris. And get back to us, please. If that— if this works at all or it doesn't work, get back to us. Yeah, we would like to know either way. Yeah, yeah. So any final thoughts, or should we just wrap this puppy up?

Lars: Let's jump to the second one.

Morten: The second one, second question.

Lars: Yes, I think we also wanted to include this, or at least I noted that on my list now, unless we are out of time, then you'll have.

Morten: To— No, no, we have time. We are 25 minutes something.

Lars: Then let's dive in for the second one, or at least that's one I noted from earlier. So a little while back we got an email from Sergio Rodriguez. Rodriguez from Brazil. So again, thanks to all the people around the world listening. It's so much fun to see so many different listeners from different countries that really also add some different perspectives to the podcast. So thanks to you as well, Sergio. His question was, I think David Allen's definition for projects, everything that demands more than one action to be completed, makes some people confused on how to differentiate projects and goals and objectives more important and end up putting them in the same basket. Could you elaborate a bit on that? Thanks. And Sergio from Brazil. There we had— So we had different takes on this, right?

Morten: We did.

Lars: We did.

Morten: Go first, Lars. No, go first.

Lars: We did not plan on being this polite, clearly. So, no, I think the way I understood Sergio's question was that we, from a GTD perspective, make plain lists. One long list of projects would be a starting point when you start off with GTD. Just one long list of projects, one long list of goals and objectives further into the future. So I think what Sergio was asking was that this could provide a challenge in, and when you look at that list and whether you see what is most important. To you. So examples from my world could be that I have right now a project in my system to change the air conditioner. It's broken, it needs to be replaced. So that's a project in my system. Need to, you know, get a time at the, at the repair shop to get this fixed and get some different offers, things like that. So not a lot of steps, not a very complex project, but nevertheless a project. In my system. The other one could be to, you know, sign this big client. So this life-changing client for your business, you know, this would really be a huge impact if you had this contract signed. Big complex project, important project to get done, that would go on the same list potentially, right? So you would have one list of projects and they would both be standing next to each other. And that's what I'm guessing that Sergio is asking is, wouldn't that be a bit confusing because we don't make a prioritized list of the different projects. So that would be my starting point in understanding his question. Did you, you had a different perspective on this?

Morten: Yes, I did. But I suggest that we follow your train of thoughts and then try and solve that aspect. And if that solves, solve it for him, great. And I can come to come back to my thinking as well. Yeah, sure, sure. What would your recommendation be for him?

Lars: So when we talk about projects, we start off with one plain list. And as you hinted before as well. We might then, once we get a significant list or, you know, the list grows a bit long, then there's typically a natural way to group these kinds of things. It could be work-related projects, it could be personal projects, or it could be grouped by areas of focus or whatever works well for you to get an overview of all the projects you have committed to. So my guess would be that then Sergio would sit there and he would have his next actions list, and what would he then work from?. And, you know, priorities in GTD come from having a clear picture of the higher horizons of focus. So that's where I would be looking, combining the list of higher horizons with a good solid weekly review. That would be my starting point in having a clear picture of what would be the right thing for me to work on right now. So especially the weekly review. And I do remember that. And I can recognize, you know, Sergio's perspective, or maybe that's why I interpret it the way I do, is that, you know, so I would sit there, I would look at my list, and I would have, you know, of, let's say, 15 things on my computer list, which one would be the right thing for me to do right now? So, that's where the weekly review and that's what changed for me when I started off with GTD. The weekly review, just as we spoke about now with Lauren and Chris, was not always weekly, let's put it that way. So, having a more solid weekly review practice, revisiting those projects making sure those projects have a next action, evaluate the status of those projects. Then once you sit down to work from your list, you do know where you want to be putting your attention and where you want to be putting in the effort to move things forward. I don't know, what would you, what would you respond to, Sergio?

Morten: No, my take is a little different because I think he is making a mixture of projects, areas of focus, and goals. In one big, merry bucket of everything, which is not the way to do it. Because goals are, just to do a definition here, if you use the horizons of focus model, which we do use to tell it which horizon the different things reside. If you start at the bottom, you have your calendar and you have your next actions. And then you take a step up, you are at your project/desired outcomes, project and private. And the next step up is areas of focus or accountability. And then you have goals, and then you have visions, and then you have purpose, values, and principles. So if you look at that from the bottom up, you go from projects, next actions— sorry, from next action up to projects, up to areas of responsibility and accountability. And if you, you look at that, like say it says budget, that's my area of responsibility at work. Or car, cars, all cars in the family is my, you know, whatever cars we might have is my responsibility to maintain, etc. I am also the budgeting, the creation of a budget and the follow-up of a budget at work. And these are areas of focus that should not reside inside your project lists. It should reside in the level above. They will— as I— I'm not sure if this is my phrasing or I've heard this somewhere else, but I call it that areas of focus and accountability is that they are birthing projects. So you will look at them,, and you will say, yeah, now I really, we need to take maintenance on one of the cars. This is, I, now I remember, this is, let me create a project for that to get that done. And then if you, but if you put cars and budget on your project lists, you will overwhelm yourself very quickly. Projects has a beginning and it has an end, should last for a year-ish and should have next actions. And that's where I think if you put everything in the project bucket, you will just overwhelm yourself. I don't know. Does that make sense to you?

Lars: It certainly does. And, you know, looking at a list of projects that aren't projects will make you have to start thinking again. Yeah, exactly. I think that's what it will come back to for me. What does that actually mean? How are the cards actually doing? How are the budgets doing? You know, so it would, it would trigger so many more thoughts instead of actually just giving you a clear picture. Where are we heading? What am I working on? And then hopefully the next actions list would reflect. So how do we actually start moving on these things?

Morten: Yeah. And that, that also ties into, to Lauren and Chris's question about the length of the weekly review is that it will take a longer time if you mix them because you have to think, what is this? What, you know, you should have them for making inspiration for yourself so that when you look through your your weekly review, maybe you want to add, if not every time, but every now and then, check that list of areas of responsibility and focus. So look at where are they properly maintained, or should I create a project to maintain that area? And, yeah, and that also ties into, if you want to go up to to goals, long-term goals you would like to complete. You know, if they are not active yet, they are on the goals list. If they're active, you should put it on the project list. Then it's not a goal anymore. It's something that you don't want to lose track of. That's between 1 to 5-year-ish horizons should go there. And if you're not ready to work on it, don't put it on your project list because everything that goes on the project list should be active. I am actively working on this project now. And this is where the differential between the higher horizons plus the, I have, I want to do this project, it's been planned, but now I need to put it on hold because I have too much to do. That is a very powerful differentiation. Put it on hold if you can't do it. You know, if it is a goal, you're not going to move on before a year or two. Don't put it on the project list. Keep it on the goals list. And if it is an area of focus or accountability, please don't put it on as a project. Look at it and see what project it births. It will give birth to a project at some point, maybe. So, any other thinking about Sergio's question?

Lars: No, no, I hope we, we covered it either one, one way or another, depending on how we, how we interpreted it. So having a clear, you know, separation between the different types of elements that show up in your horizons of focus. And also certainly if it is a prioritization question on what's more important on your projects list, then having that weekly review set up and making sure that that projects list is organized to give you an overview of what's, you know, giving you the best overview that you need in your review. I think those are the key takeaways from that.

Morten: And just to come back to some tip you had, is to read the book Making It All Work, and also maybe Ready for Anything, David Allen's third book. You know that every time you revisit those books, because I read Making It All Work 2 or 3 times before, but I'm listening to it now because it is as an audiobook now, so I'm listening to it. And it's kind of, it gets another hue every time you read it and you understand more of the depth of getting things done still. There are some things that go, "Ah, hmm, that's what he meant when he said, ah." So not very often when we're doing it as long as, and intensively as you and I have done it, I guess. But I remember, you know, the second listen to the book and, you know, the second listen to this Making It All Work. And maybe we should tell people why we're listening to that, because we are doing it for the same reason.

Lars: We are. So we are both preparing for our Level 3 certification. So there are 3 levels of GTD seminars, Level 1 Fundamentals, Level 2 Projects and Priorities, and Level 3 Focus and Direction. And so we are both preparing to become certified trainers in this last of the 3 seminars that are offered by the Getting Things Done group.

Morten: Yeah, I'm sure we will get a black belt from David at some point.

Lars: Yes, I will expect that. We'll certainly elaborate on that as well in a future episode so people have more of an idea because we did get this as a listener question a while back as well. What can you actually expect from the different seminars? And since we are present in so many countries, it would make sense to just walk through. So what can you expect from the different seminars? And if that piques your interest, then you'll find people locally too.

Morten: To help you with that. Yeah. And I'm super excited to take the Level 3. And as you said, we will come back to what does that mean to you as a listener. We will, of course, share whatever insights we find that we didn't find before. But at least we will come back and describe the different seminar levels so that you know that if you wanted to take a seminar with us, in the GTD community of partners in 78 countries now, I think we could help you and it would be maybe give you help to find out where should I start. So where do I begin? Exactly. Where do I go if I've started already? So, okay. Will you wrap us up now?

Lars: Now is the time for wrapping up. That is the time for wrapping up. And I think that leads perfectly into our normal wrap-up, which is to— so where would you find that local partners? Well, for people outside the Nordics, gettingthingsdone.com. Navigate to that website and you will find the local partner there. If you're based in the Nordics, head on over to gtdnordic.com. That's where you'll find the local partners in each of the Nordic countries. And on each of those sites, you'll find all the information you need, uh, different articles, our newsletter, groups on social media that discuss GTD. And of course, the different seminars, speeches, and coaching that we offer in each of those countries. And then we also started to add last time, I think, that if you're not watching us right now, you could be. You can find us on YouTube as well. So we have different channels there where you can go and find us, head on over there, and you can subscribe and you'll get the next episode as an option to watch on YouTube if you would prefer, there will be links in the show notes as well. And lastly, as always, we really hope that you do find these episodes valuable, not just Lauren and Chris and Sergio, but also everyone else listening and watching. And if you do, we really appreciate when you share an episode with a colleague to help introduce them maybe to Getting Things Done, or if your podcast client supports it, then give us a good rating there. It really helps the discoverability. And I, you know, like to check in on these sometimes with the different countries and really appreciate so many constructive constructive feedback and so many nice ratings.

Morten: So, thank you so much. Indeed. Yes, exactly. Thank you for all your ratings. And until next time, stay safe and stay productive.

Lars: Bye-bye, everybody. Bye-bye. Starting a green cemetery, and in addition to that, having 2 children under 5. Right now we share our complete GTD system, physical filing system, Google Calendars, Evernote.

Morten: For digital reference, and to-do— and I fucked it up. I'm.

Lars: Sorry, again. I noticed it did jump around in the background, but I thought we were okay.

Morten: Yeah, so, okay, so let's, I'm sorry about this because I was going to mute myself and I hit the wrong button. Let me try and do this again.