Episode 124 of the Getting Things Done® podcast. Listen above, or read the full transcript below.
Transcript
Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.
Morten: Hi and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from Vital Learning. I am Morten Røvik, and as always, I'm here with my good friend and colleague Lars Rothschild Henriksen. Prævit Lars.
Lars: Prævit Morten. Good to see you as always, and as always, good to be with our listeners and viewers out there. We always start off with a quick reminder of the purpose of this podcast, which is to help you learn GTD or become even better GTDers. We hope that today's episode supports you in that. If you are new to GTD, we always recommend you go back and listen to episodes 1 through 6 of the audio version of the podcast. That's where we describe the basics of GTD, the 5 steps. This is episode number 124. Of the podcast, and today's episode is about GTD and your summer vacation.
Morten: It is, and how to survive and how to get most out of it is probably the, the base feelings around this. And we, as we normally do, we do a little pre-show thinking, and we started talking about what would we— where would we start? And we landed on that we will start with a natural planning model. And Loris, can I challenge you just to give us a brief overview on what is the natural planning model?
Lars: Morten, you're very sneaky at this in the podcast, you know that. I have gotten comments about that. And your turn. So the natural planning model is the model that we You find in Chapter 3 of the Getting Things Done book in the GTD trainings. We cover it in the Level 2 training. It's always a big hit, perhaps the most popular part even of the Level 2 training. And we, it's a model that we pick out or pick up when we have more strategic, creative, complex projects that we need to plan and we need to really, really think through. We use it, you know, you can use it for yourself. You can use it as a team. You could use it with your family, perhaps in this context. And these are 5 different steps that we then go through to work our way through a project where we try to define, so what would the purpose be and what are the standards that we, you know, the surroundings, the standards for the travel, what's the vision, the wild success, what's the brainstorm, everything that needs to happen to get to that wild success. And then we try to organize that and make a plan for it and then figure out the next actions. Easy as that.
Morten: Easy peasy. And we do have a dedicated episode for the natural planning model, I guess.
Lars: I think that was episode number 10, actually, off the top of my head. Yep, episode number 10.
Morten: Episode number 10. So if you want to have a little more meat on the bone, what the natural planning model is, then go back to— pause this and go to episode 10 and come back.
Lars: I was just gonna say you can go back and find a very, very young, young versions of Morten Lars, but unfortunately it was audio only, I think, until around episode 40, 50 something. So you only hear the younger voices.
Morten: I think we were just as, uh, you know, people comment that they like our Scandinavian dialects here and accents in English. So that, that is still— I think.
Lars: We just GTDers are just the nicest people.
Morten: GTDers are the nicest people, so that hasn't changed. But to do a natural planning model with your family, I did that a couple of times with my ex-wife and my son. And the way that we did this is to just sit down, and they didn't know that this was a natural planning model. I didn't inform them that this is part of GTD, but it is a very powerful model that you can use to hash out almost anything, also your summer vacation. So then just ask people the silly questions. Why are we going on a summer vacation? That's where I would start. And then get them to talk, get them to ask, you know, why do you want to go on a vacation? And why might be a difficult one if you have teenagers. I don't want to go. I want to hang with my friends. I don't know if that's something that you, our dear listener, have encountered. I have not. Lars has not either yet. Not yet. Not yet. Exactly. But why are we going with this? Why are we going on a vacation? What do we, you know, what was, how would that make you feel if the why is fulfilled. Where would you start with your family? I think you have done this also already.
Lars: Yeah, we have. Not as, you know, not as much as I would have thought, actually. I think they're, you know, we have played around with it, but the oldest is 9. So we played around with it, I think, last year or the year before. But they are, they're still fairly young. So for the most part, it makes sense for us to work with it, but again, to, you know, set the framing for their brainstorm. I think we would've probably picked out some of the components from the natural planning model, say, hey, so, you know, we are going on vacation because of this. Uh, you know, we'll go to Norway, we'll be in this type of vacation. What would you like to do? That kind of framing. And then they would come up with, uh, with different ideas. Um, go to the summer house. All right, well, we have to catch the big crabs and we have to, you know, go fishing, climb the mountain, whatever it might be. So I think that that's mostly where we've used it as a family for, for now. But I imagine we will be, Do you see it more going forward?
Morten: Yeah, and to just establish the wild success, that was a wild success with my, especially with my son, because he wanted to, you know, have a vision of how it would be to be on a vacation. So if we went somewhere, what we would do there, and like fishing crabs and do whatever, you know, you do on a vacation, that helped him frame this and that made him more positive to go on a vacation. Motivation, even when he's a little older. So when he traveled, it's then to ask him, what would you like to see? And that was highly motivational for him. And then it was part of the decision. So when we finally packed the bags and went, he was ready and he was motivated and he was happy about it. I'm sure you will see the same with your boys. And for those of you who don't know, Lars, I have 3 boys. One is still keeping me awake in the night, at least one.
Lars: If I fall asleep during the recording here, That's just the reason. Don't worry.
Morten: Yeah, I have my microphone connected to your ears. I will shout very loud.
Lars: I'm awake. I'm awake. I'm still here.
Morten: I'm still here. Okay, so then look at one of the things that I would do is, you know, we talk about why are we doing this and what standards would we like to adhere to. So from, you know, it could be, okay, it will be one week or, you know, a week and a half, I don't know, 10 days. And that's the, you know, the time we have. What would you like to fill those days with? Where are we going? So talk about where you will go and what you would like to fill the days with. And then what wild success would look like as, you know, then wild success will come after. Like, I'm sure your boys are going to ask, can we go to Paris and Disney? Is it Land or World? I don't remember.
Lars: Disney World, I guess. Disney something.
Morten: Yeah. Disney something in Paris. I'm sure they will ask this, and then the wild success will be, you know, spending way too much money and time in Disney World, but they will be happy. And then the standards will then be adhered to. If, you know, we want to go there, we would like to see something good. Okay, so now we planned where we will go and, you know, what we will do there, and But then you have to keep track of everything. So how do you handle, you know, the calendar part there, Lars? You know, the calendar is a big part of traveling. You need to know, keep track of if you have some flights or you have some, you know, ferry times you would like to catch. If you've made a— I know normally you would take the ferry to Norway, I guess, from Denmark to Larvik in Norway, and then all of that needs to be in the calendar and, you know, everything that needs to be booked needs to be booked. So how do you keep track of that?
Lars: So how do you— that just goes directly in the calendar. Exactly, exactly as you say. It's, you know, as we go through the process, I was just, you know, looking through it. And as you mentioned, now we, you know, we go to Norway every year. My mother's parents were from Norway. So we have our summer cottage there and we go there every year. So the project I think is pretty— I should I could even make a checklist for, for booking vacations now because it's pretty much the same every year. Agenda to wife, should we go to Norway again this year? She will say yes. Agenda to my mom, when do we have the access to the summer house? Because it's shared with her siblings. All right, it's these weeks then. Agenda wife, when should we go? Computer, book the ferry, Google camping sites because we typically go one year, one week camping and one week at the summer house. And then, you know, book, book the things in your calendar, perhaps, you know, a shared note with different ideas that come up with what we wanted to do on vacation. So we might have found, you know, a theme park nearby, or, you know, we're going to go sailing, or you want to go, you know, do something special. We might have that, or, you know, shared shopping list if there's stuff we need to go buy. When we go to Norway, there's all different kinds of foods that we don't get in Denmark that we have to get. So we have a pretty significant list with all the guys from Norway. What foods? Oh well, we have to have quick lunch when we go, you know, the chocolate, and we have to have the mackerel, and there, there is some liver paste, and there's a special herring salad that they make in the center, or near the city, near the summer house. And there's— I could, I could go on, you don't want to get me started. We have so many things that we— we— Joica, my sister, will insist on the meatballs in the can. Yeah. So, so many things that we have to buy. And then of course the travel checklist that we have that, you know, obviously perhaps it's worth just mentioning. I don't know. Yours may be the same, but at least for a long time, mine was sort of very, it was not a travel checklist. It was a packing list. So it had all the stuff that I need to, we need to put in the bags for the kids and for ourselves. But then we found out that, ah, well, actually some things are stored not at home but elsewhere. So we need to go, go get that before we start packing. All right. So there are some stuff we need to do at least, at least a week in advance. So that started to really expand the list, make sure that we have some food in the fridge for when we get home. When we do get home, make sure that we set up a shared photo album with the family as well. So there are sort of different, you know, steps to take before and after. So at least that was one of the things that how my system evolved at some point.
Morten: So you have a pre-travel and post-travel and then packing list and, you know, everything in between.
Lars: Yeah, exactly. So we set that up soon, you know, when we know the dates that we're going, we'll set up the checklists. I think around a month before is when I typically do it. I just shared Apple Notes with my wife on her phone as well, because in there we all have, you know, What do we need to do before the vacation, both, you know, a week or two weeks before and also the night before and, you know, water the plants and take out the trash and yeah, all that good stuff that you learned at some point where you forgot to do that. Now, you know, never to do that again.
Morten: Okay. So, so I was going to throw you under the bus again, but you kind of answered my question as why would you have a checklist? To not to forget and to forget until you need to. And then checklist is the only thing that I think we haven't mentioned is that it needs to be pruned. It needs to be, you know, it needs to be, what do you call that, refined every year. Take things out, add things that showed up. And the reason you are doing this is, of course, that you want to make sure that nothing slips for.
Lars: You. Yeah, some of it showed up before because, you know, smart Lars sat down and thought to make a list, and some of it showed up because the current Lars looked back at smart Lars and said, you weren't that smart, so.
Morten: We should bring this next year. Yeah, let me tell you a very short story about a person who did not do this. An unnamed friend of my wife and I, he was going to Dubai last weekend on Saturday and he did not have a checklist. And he arrived at the airport with his annulled old passport, the one with holes in it. They punched holes in it to make sure he didn't mistake it. But he didn't have it. He was in a stressful moment. He has to to rush to take the train. And then, so he arrived and then he panicked and he said, got back on the train to go back to, well, it's a city outside Oslo called Drammen. And for those of you who know where that is, that's not a very short distance. So he traveled there and then he got his passport and then he got on the train. And of course, he was late to his plane. So he spent the night in our apartment, in our guest room. And let that be a lesson to you all. Checklists are good for you. So, and where, where do you have your checklists, Lars?
Lars: Where do you keep them? Yeah, good question. I, so I started adding really elaborate, you know, good checklists in, in when I had my GTD system in OneNote. So that's, you know, 10, 10, 15, 10+ years ago at least. And then they kind of stuck there even though I migrated to Todoist as my, my platform for, for managing projects, next actions, areas of focus even. But they kind of stayed there. And now that I am sort of putting things together in the, in the Apple environment, I'm moving things to Notes. It's just quicker and easier to work with. And it's also that, you know, most GTDers that have made a transition from one system to another will also recognize that there is an opportunity to, to refine, like you just said. So I had maybe a slightly too long checklist. So there were some things on there that I used to pack that I don't pack anymore. You know, so, so they have been simplified as they made their way to, to Apple Notes. So we have them there. We actually play around with them a bit. And of course, I have my creative wife who's also very, you know, she works with the, with the children as well and is very knowledgeable about that. And so she'll, you know, take our checklist and then she'll make one for the kids with drawings and what they should pack. So she'll draw 4 shirts and she'll draw 3 pairs of pants and she'll draw, you know, we have some pretty elaborate checklists checklists as well. So depending on who it is, yeah, we, we get different checklists, but highly recommend that. It, it, it works if you, if you remember to bring that bag. So again, also maybe speaking, speaking from some experience here, make sure you bring all the bags. Perhaps I need to put that on my checklist as well.
Morten: You forget one?
Lars: Let's talk about something else. Yes, fortunately the, the age difference between our two oldest boys is not too big. So it all worked out.
Morten: Okay. Good. Good. Good.
Lars: Good. What about you? Where are your word lists?
Morten: They are in Notes. And just before we go to Notes and how I use them is that I think if you are in the PC Microsoft world, then OneNote could be a very good option for you. If you have a Google account, you can use, what do you call it, Google Tasks as a checklist.
Lars: Google Keep, I think, right? I think that is to Jukka. I remember Jukka presenting from Finland how he used to do that and delegate the checklist to the kids as well, so they had their own. And yeah, that could work well.
Morten: Yeah, you can also, well, OneNote PC world, if you want to do it personal, share with your better have. Could be in Google Keep, or as Lars and I, we are in the Apple sphere of both apps and operating systems and thingies, so we do use Notes. And it is shareable, all of them are shareable with others, so it's easy to, to make sure that the other people who are involved in your packing or travel preparations are kept informed. So the one that you haven't mentioned yet is one of the things that I have. I don't know, before we get out of the house, I don't know if you have a little before where you have to plan what you put, but just leaving the day you're leaving, that's one very crucial checklist that we have. Like check that all the windows are closed, make sure that the non-OCD person checks that all the ovens are off and all the the sockets that needs to be unplugged are unplugged so that you can get out of the house and everybody can be relaxed and take the trash out. That's one of the big things. We come home after 3 weeks on vacation and the house smells like a garbage dump. That's not a good emotion to arrive with. So, but great.
Lars: Especially we have some, I don't know if you have that kind of, sometimes we, a few times Now we've been invited by my mom to go to Cyprus, and that'll be sort of that, you know, all-inclusive kind of thing. And those planes tend to leave pretty early in the morning, at least when it, yeah, the ones that we get. So we have to get up at 3 AM and drive at 4 AM. And you really, I, you know, I need checklists when I'm awake, but, you know, at that time, I really do need checklists. We will actually, I was just thinking now, we would, we actually print them and then, you know, check them off as as we go through them. And then we add to the list as we, you know, there's something we find missing. Then when we come home, we put that printed version in, it goes in my in-tray, my inbox, and I will update the checklist accordingly. I don't know, I just, you know, thought of that. I don't know if you do that as well.
Morten: No, but I think that is a really good idea, especially if you're traveling with kids and want to make it, you know, something they can see and learn from, which is never a a bad thing. And it is, it makes the updating after, you don't have to think about it, just capture the change and then you can change it after. So, if you do not do that, then you have to create an item at the bottom of the list and that's not been processed somehow. So, that's good. And it is physical visible. If it is physical visible, you are, you know, the digital sphere is convoluted and it's It's hidden in an app somewhere instead of how it's on the table. This we need to do before we leave the house. And ask dad if he's locked the door. That's probably a good one. And you know that what your wife are doing with making the drawings, making it for the help them, then it's cool. And all the apps that we've been talking about have the checkbox so you can tick it off. And if I'm not mistaken, that both— I don't remember if Google have this in Google Keep. If when you tick something off, is it removed? Can it stay there? Yeah, even after it's been a while.
Lars: Since I checked actually how it reacts by default. I don't know.
Morten: Well, it's not— it's just a detail is that in Apple Notes it stays there, it doesn't go away. And I think the same in Google— sorry, in OneNote, it stays there, it just gets ticked off, which is a good thing if you're more than one person packing, for example. You know what your better half has packed. And you know what your children has packed because you can check it because it's online. I don't know if your, your boys have some iPad access or something that they can— I'm sure they would love to have an iPad too.
Lars: Yeah, no, we have a pretty locked, uh, lockdown actually, the one, my iPad. So they have access, but just to— they need to— they, they use it for a drawing. So that's why. And also for this, that's part of the reason why we print it as well. We've also played with with not having a table for each of the things that we need so everyone can check off their own. I've packed this and you've packed this. It's something to play around with. Then we haven't really settled on any specific things other than I thought the visual checklist that my wife came up with actually seemed to work pretty well.
Morten: Yeah. And it is, you know, that if it's on the table or somewhere on it or in a, you know, I don't know where you keep this, but if, or on the fridge, I don't know where, but if the children then pack and then everybody else can see I packed this and you can get a tap on the shoulder with a clap, well done, you know, spot on. Yeah. And I just want to go briefly back to calendar and we both use it extensively for planning. I just want to share how I'm using the calendar. I have a calendar, I invite my wife to the events that we go somewhere where she needs to have an, you know, possibly have an active— she can see my calendar, but all the events that I would like her to be actively participating or potentially actively participating, I invite her from my personal calendar. And then what goes there is all the travel information, so the flight numbers, the— if there is a, like, we went to, to the weekend— well, we are recording this on a Monday, so on Saturday to Sunday we traveled to a small city in Norway for, you know, just for the weekend, and we had a confirmation code from the hotel, and I just, you know, downloaded the confirmation. It was a PDF, and I put it on a shared folder in Google Drive, and then just linked that to the to the calendar event for the stay, and she then has access to everything. If I should fall over and can't talk or something happens, then she can take over and has access to whatever she needs to have access to. I don't know, do you use something similar?
Lars: Does Silvi have access to Yeah, exactly. So we would share that as well. And I would invite as well. What, so our approach would pretty much be the same. But, you know, every, both work and home calendars are already shared. So it would be visible. But yeah, so I would invite there. I do come across some people that prefer the family calendar. I don't know. I'm guessing you have come across that as well. For me personally, I just prefer, you know, I have my things under control. You have your things under control and we can work together. The family thing, who maintains that, owns that, it's just, for me, it's different. But some people really like that as well. And of course, if that's your preference, then great.
Morten: Now, I've experimented earlier with this since I have it like, this works especially be well if your children have access to see the calendar somewhere. Like you put the calendar on Apple TV or you put it on an iPad that they can see so that, you know, then you can have a family calendar which shadows what a family will do together. And then if, as long as they can't, you know, that they don't have a device of their own, they can also see, I don't know, 'On Thursday I have soccer practice and it's from this time to this time.' That's good information to know for just for mom and dad because probably they have to drive you. Or I have, you know, the band is playing, I need to be there, the brass band. And the idea is to have one family calendar that's helping the children to get an overview of their world but their mother and father is in charge of reminding them. But as they get older, they can get a personal calendar, but then that should be either invited or shared with the parents so that they know what is going on. That's what I think might be not maybe exactly the best practice, but one practice that will keep everyone in the.
Lars: Loop for what you need to do. Yeah. Yeah. We just created accounts for them when they were like 2 or 3 and then just stopped having their own calendars. That's.
Morten: You know, so we wouldn't have to clog up our calendars. Old school.
Lars: Rotskid Hendrickson.
Morten: Yes. That is me. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get them their, each their domain.
Lars: As well? We, we had, had that, but we.
Morten: We sold off again. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, well, I haven't done that for my son. I know some people do buy domains for their children. So firstnamelastname.com or something. Okay. So now we are getting ready to travel. And I shared that I use Google Calendar and Google Drive to, for, you know, share whatever information we need to share. And I do also have, as I— we talked about, I think last time we talked about traveling, I have some, some apps that I'm using. And you might want to think about what apps you are using, Lars, if you're using anything outside the, the, you know, what we talked about already. But I use two apps a little. One is permanent for me at the moment, is called an app called Tripsy— no, sorry, Flighty. And Flighty is Flight Tracker app that's been a little flaky but it feels a little better now. It's a subscription, you will subscribe to it and it helps you keep track of all the flights you have and it keeps you in the loop. It shows up on your iPhone. It is iPhone only, I'm sorry, I looked it up before we started, but if you have an iPhone you're in the green for this. I'm sure there are Android apps as well. If you have a tip for a flight planner for Android, send us an email because we want to have this in our toolkit when we talk to you in a couple of years' time about traveling again, then we will have updated information. So, but the Flighty keeps track of all the flights and it also gives me, I have a newer iPhone, I think this was some iPhone 14 and it is what's called the Dynamic Island. Which is like the pill on the top of your phone. If you have a pill on the top of your phone, an elongated part on top of your screen, then you know what I'm talking about. And that, that goes there when we get ready. It's on the, the, what you call the lock screen. It shows up there. Then it shows how long time it is to the flight, what is the flight number, how long time would the flight take, when will you land. And, and during, it will also give you, you know, if you have some gate changes or when the gate is announced, it will show up on the app. You can add your seats there and you can import automatically from most airlines. You just forward the email to Flighty and it will automatically put the flights in your calendar. The calendar connects to Google Calendar and it puts the the flights there with the flight number and a link back to the app so you can see all the details in the app. It also has historical flight data, so if you traveled with this before, it can tell you how many times you've flown with this, how many, how often has it been delayed for you, and then how often has it been delayed for others and for how long. So you kind of get all the statistics you will, your statistic person inside you who loves statistics can use if you like it. Of course, if you're not a statistic person, this is not valuable.
Lars: Information.
Morten: But, um, and then I use something called, uh, Tripsy, which is part of— you can buy this or you can, I think, subscribe to it on a thing. This is also iOS, macOS app only. It's called— well, it's Tripsy, and it's— you can do it directly with a subscription, or you can do it through the Setapp. I don't know if you know what Setapp is, but it is kind of an alternative app store for iOS and macOS and iPadOS, and it's— they have a a lot of very good apps there. So I'm a subscriber, and it's very affordable, more affordable than you should think about. So Tripsy is also part of the setup subscription, so I have that. And Tripsy is more like for flights— sorry, for travels that I don't use a plane, where it's more like a road trip, or you, you take a ferry boat, or, or you go on a cruise. I don't know, any— anywhere where you don't go with a plane, that's where I use Tripsy and it keeps all the information that you can add documents to it. You can have a timeline so that you know where you will go. And I've also put inside, for example, museums we would like to see, sites we would like to visit, and addresses and links to so that, you know, when you open the app, you can just— we are now going to this museum, you will get your, your Google Maps open so you can go there. Any— what apps are you using, Lars, for this purpose of, you know, during the— before planning, before and during, how do you get where you are.
Lars: Going? Just— No, next question. Next question. No, I think I mentioned, you know, when we set up the— any sort of information that we want to capture about the location, we would just have it in Notes. We don't have any specialized apps for that. So, so yeah, I think that's, that's probably where it would go. Yeah.
Morten: So, and okay, just Notes. So, okay, so, so if you have a program for, for, you know, well, if you have a link to a map to the museum, it will be.
Lars: There, or, or probably in the calendar if we know when we're going.
Morten: Otherwise Yeah. Okay, cool. I'm just, you don't need an app for everything, but there is an app for almost anything. And I think at least for flighting, that's, that I found to be, it gives a lot of information that I need. And it's a little expensive, the subscription, but I feel the peace of mind that it gives me, you know, when you're at, you get a delayed notification or if it's a gate change., you will get it before they are announced on the PI system or at the screens. So I think it adds value when we are traveling. So I feel more comfortable traveling, more relaxed, and hey, we like relaxed. So, um, then, then we have— okay, so anything to add during the, the Chris, sorry, during the travel, anything you.
Lars: Would like to— No, I think just I'm curious to hear your standards or practices for how you use your sort of GTD habits, both during and, you know, I imagine that before you going on vacation, you probably did a solid weekly review. Of course, you do that every week, but a really solid one, an extra solid one. But what do you do when it comes to capturing capturing during the vacation? Do you clarify empty inboxes? Do you do weekly reviews? Now, I'm just curious to hear what you do. And I imagine that this would sort of differ between brief vacations, business vacations, longer summer vacations.
Morten: What's your standard? No, before I travel, of course, I set aside ample time for doing a thorough weekly review.. And I also try to plan the vacation before, you know, a few weeks before in the way of, is there something I need to hand off to someone else? Like we have colleagues, I have colleagues that I need to talk to if there is somebody who can, you know, I'm going on the vacation, this and there, can you take, can I put you in the, if emergency you need to get hold of me, text me or call me if not is super urgent, but you need to get an answer, send an email to my colleague. And just to get that sorted before we go. And then when I do the weekly review, I will then add on my checklist: prepare, it's like do the out-of-office reply and change my voicemail message, the answering machine message, saying that I'm on a vacation. I don't expect me to call back if I don't, you know, send me a text. That's a better way of showing me because sometimes I'm somewhere I can't talk. I'm having a martini in the bar. I don't want to talk to you. So no. So I would do that. And then During, I would just capture. That would be my default. I would not— if I have an idea or something, or if I have an SMS that I need to respond to, I would use Siri to add it to my Apple Reminders. "Remind me of this," and then give her a little more information. "Remind me of this in an hour." and it will pop up on my screen on my phone in 1 hour, or remind me of this when I'm back at the hotel, because then the hotel will be mapped and Siri will know where the hotel is. And I would just capture. That would be mine. I prefer not to deal with emails. I prefer not to think about work when I'm vacationing with my family. I want to be there with them. And if I can. I think you might have some of the same thinking, Lars, or how do you handle this?
Lars: Yeah, yeah. No, no, it's— I think when it comes to email, I have switched a bit and tried both, and I can recognize both. And I also hear that from coaching clients or people participating in trainings that for them to stay present, they just need to know that everything is under control. And for them, then and it helps to do that quick email scan. But otherwise, yeah, I try to disconnect and would prefer to do that as well. And yeah, capture, you know, whatever shows up, typically not that much and only in the first few days of the vacation. Sometimes I'll clarify and organize as well just to be sure that, you know, you mentioned a 3-week vacation. If I capture some random note out, and then 3 weeks later, I look at it and I'm like, what the— what is this? That might be a bit of a challenge. So if I'm concerned that I wouldn't know what I was talking about when I wrote it down, I would be sure to clarify and organize that. So I probably do that on a weekly basis on vacations, but maybe not. I've also switched when it comes to, you know, a weekly review. Reviews. Sometimes I've done them and sometimes I haven't. Rarely do I need a big review because not much has changed since the last time I did a review. So it could be a really quick one. In some cases, this could be, you know, let's say we are going on that summer vacation and this is where I would plan my half-year review. Then that would require a weekly review beforehand to make sure that that part is not going to take up any of my attention, I have that under control, it's fresh in my memory, and then I can move on to the higher horizons and other things that I would do in my half year review. So I think that's probably how I.
Morten: Would use GCD in my vacation. Yeah, I'm thinking along the same lines as you, and I think you put me onto this. And something that if I feel that I need to, I have some very important emails or something I would like to follow on email,. I have a very easy way of doing that. If it's not actionable and it's trash, you will of course delete it when it shows up in your inbox if you clarify. But when you think about this, well, I can archive it or do I need to do something about it? And so what I do then is to, I've created, I think this is your invention, Lars, I'm not sure, tell me if I'm wrong, but the clarify after vacation or answer after vacation, that's.
Lars: Your invention, isn't it? Sure, let's say that. Let's roll with that. I'm always really careful about these ideas because oftentimes I came up with this great idea and then, you know, David you mentioned it 20 years ago, or someone else you mentioned it, or whoever mentioned it. So I don't, I don't want to take credit, but it's a good idea.
Morten: I know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. So the way that I do this, I, I do it, you know, the, the folders in the, or the labels in the Gmail has, you can, if I put a dot, it will sort on the top. So it will be dot answer after vacation, and then all the emails that I, I deem to answerable after I get back, I just label them or move them there, and then they're out of the inbox, and it doesn't feel so overwhelming. And then you have one very important list that you have to look at when you get back, which is the "Answer after vacation" folder. For me, this has helped me feel more present, specifically if I'm waiting for something. And maybe if you don't feel comfortable as a person to not read email. And I know that there are regional in this world, cultural regional differences on how we in the Nordics and maybe specifically in Scandinavia, we want to enjoy our vacations. We don't have to, you know, unless it's really important, you prefer relax and.
Lars: Not think about work. I think most people would.
Morten: Want that from their vacation. But the cultural differences is that, A lot of people specifically, I think in the US have, you know, the boss expects you to answer email when you're on vacation.
Lars: It's like, oh, I'm glad I'm not living there. Different story. So maybe that's culturally also within the organization.
Morten: Yes.
Lars: Yes. But we should geek out at some point about, you know, how I have changed my Gmail structure in how it only shows new emails. Emails twice a day. So that happens based on a script. So when I go on vacation now, I can just disable that automatic running of that script. So that would in practice be that same kind of parking lot for all the emails that showed up while on vacation. We need to look into that.
Morten: I'm sure we can come up with a cool solution. Capture that and we can share it with people because I'm sure people geek out on that. That. Okay, so let's do this. So now we have been on a trip, you've enjoyed the trip, and you get back. So you will of course use your checklist for what you do when you get home, if you have a checklist. But one of the things that we discussed briefly in the pre-show is that I suggest that you have a checklist for debrief after the vacation. So you get home and I had 2 things or 3 things that I would suggest that goes on that list. That could be, what was the best thing about this vacation? Or what was the best things about this vacation? What did you enjoy the most? And get everybody's input on that in the family. So, well, I enjoyed this and this was a lot of fun. And just to reflect a little on what did go go well and what did we enjoy? And then secondly, what could be better? What can we do better next year? So for example, if you plan too much activities and you didn't get through all of them, maybe some more space in the calendar could be good or some space in the vacation. And then the last item I would suggest that you put there, where would you, where would we like to go next year? You know, and maybe like you have a fixed trip to Norway way, which me and the rest of Norwegians are very happy that you do. We recommend the rest of the world to do the same. We need revenue, so come see us. And then if you are traveling, then maybe you, like you, Lars, will see what kind of theme parks we would like to see, what are we doing next year, some— what are the tweaks we would like to do to make it even more interesting next here. So anything to add to such a list, debrief list?
Lars: No, I think that's great. We've done that sort of ad hoc sometimes, but not as structured as you. I think that's a, that's a great tip. We already mentioned the post-travel checklist. One thing that, you know, sharing photo albums, things like that. One thing to add to, you know, make sure you have room in your calendar for when you come back to actually then dealing with all the stuff that happened while you were away. So you're not just thrown into meetings or other plans straight away. I think that would be the key.
Morten: Thing for me to add to what you already mentioned. Yeah. And we've been mentioning this in earlier episodes as well, but when you come back from a vacation, let's say that you come back on a Saturday and your work week starts on Monday, then maybe you should Keep, you know, extend your 'I am not available until Tuesday' so that you have Monday to clarify and organize everything that's happened in between. Get caught up with things, do a weekly review, clarify and, you know, answer the emails that seem urgent and plan how to catch up. I do that. I think you do that as well. And just because if people know you're back on Monday and you don't reach out to them, then they are a little miffed maybe, but maybe they are not the most important person or the most important instance of what you will need to do. So they can wait for.
Lars: Tuesday.
Morten: That could be possible. Yeah.
Lars: So anything to add from your perspective, Lauri? Now I think the last thing I just wanted to mention was also something that gives me some peace of mind is to have that, that passport expiry date and make sure that you have that captured in your calendar or, you know, sometime before the expiry date. Mine is 7 months before for everyone in the family. And the reason is that some countries will be less happy if you show up with a passport passport that expires in less than 6 months. So 7 months for me because I know I'll see it in advance. It takes about 2 weeks to get one in Denmark. So should be fine to have that 7 months before. That's calmed me down a bit more instead of having to, all right, packing time, here are the passports. I wonder if any of them are expired. So just getting ahead of that one.
Morten: Has been a helpful thing for me. No, I do agree with you to have that. I also do have that in for my wife and I, and it's in the calendar when our passport's expiring. We also have ID cards that don't have the same date, but they also need to get renewed. It's easier to carry that in your pocket than a big passport if you want to identify yourself. Yourself. Yeah, I think we've rounded this one up. I hope that this has been beneficial for you, our listener. And if you don't have anything to.
Lars: Add, Lars, will you take us out? Yeah, one last thing to add besides, you know, we wrapped up the travel part. I was just curious for those of you out there who work in teams, how you visualize and follow up on projects and goals. Perhaps you have, you know, you've all, you've read the team book and you have created the higher horizon for your team, or perhaps you just have a, you know, a few goals, few projects which came from higher up in the organization. How, how you then visualize them? Do you have a physical board? Do you have a Microsoft Planner, Todoist, Trello? Specialized tool for this? How do you then interact with it? Do you revisit it on a weekly basis personally, monthly with the team? Do you work with it throughout the, you know, the work week? How do you actually, you know, engage with this from a team perspective as well? I know it's so different from team to team, and I hear different stories from some of the more, let's say, advanced teams that we come across in trainings. But I'd love to hear more. So either Lars@vitallearning.dk or podcast@vitallearning.dk too. To share it with both Morten and myself. At least I'd love to hear some practical examples of how people out there use it.
Morten: So that was today's special request from Lars. Yeah. And we can also, because both you and I, so if you are in Norway or Denmark, feel free to go to our websites. And if you are a GTDer, would like to know more about how you can implement GTD for your team, then you can book a free consultation with Lars and me, or Lars or me, depending if you're in Denmark or Norway. And the idea here is that we will help you get the most out of your Getting Things Done practice and try to implement, give you some pointers on how you can implement that with your team. It's all based on the team Getting Things Done with others, book and, uh, and our experience on how you can do that, you know, getting it implemented within your team. And both Lars and I have a long experience with helping companies doing that.
Lars: So that's another add-on. I have one of those, uh, I have one of those calls scheduled in 45 minutes. Okay, so actually someone from Sweden, so a bit, a bit outside, slightly outside Denmark. But that's Denmark plus. I'm sure the Swedes will love that. Yeah, I'm not sure. I will quickly move on to the wrap-up. Do that. Any further digging down in the rabbit hole already here with a quick reminder of the GCD Summer Camp 2025 coming up. As always, really excited about this. Participants from all over the world again. Again, Europe, North America, Asia. We hope to see you there. It takes place June 14th to 15th. We'll be in Denmark once again. If you want to learn more, head on over to gtdsummercamp.com. GTD Summer Camp in one word. That is where you can find as much information as is available right now. And that's where you sign up as well. We already have, I think, around 60 participants when we record this. So I'm sure I'm sure by the time this is out, we'll be even more. So we'll grow again this year. Yeah, be a lot of fun.
Morten: And also a quick reminder to head on over. Just a little, don't wait. If you want to come, don't wait.
Lars: Sign up. Sorry, Lars, continue please. And the other reminder, you probably heard this before if you heard the podcast before, head on over to visalearning.eu because that is the overarching website for all of Vital Learning Nordics plus country groups that we, we have. So you'll find links to each of the country websites there, and there you'll find information about all the work that we do, which relates to Getting Things Done, Crucial Conversations, Crucial Influence, and more. So find your way there, find the newsletter, how you get in touch with Morten and myself, vitallearning.eu. And if you are outside the Nordics, cruciallearning.com is the place to go to.
Morten: Find your local partners. Indeed, indeed. And thank you all for sticking with us. We know that some of you enjoy this. That's why you keep listening, I think. And we enjoy hearing from you. So we are now a little low on our listener questions. So if you have listener questions, please feel free to send that at podcast@finnmark.fi. Podcast@vitallearning.dk for your listener questions where you can nerd out with your problem and we will try and help you sort it out. And with that, it is my duty to say, as I always do, until next time, stay safe and stay productive.
Lars: Bye-bye. Mm.
