Episode 126 of the Getting Things Done® podcast. Listen above, or read the full transcript below.
Transcript
Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.
Morten: Hi and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from Vital Learning. I am Morten Dreveg, and as always, I'm here with my good friend and colleague Lars Rothschild Henriksen. Privet, Lars. Privet, Morten.
Lars: That sounds like a deep breath. Good to see you as always, and good to be with our listeners and viewers out there. We always start off with a quick reminder of the purpose of this podcast, which is to help you learn GTD or become even better GTDers. We hope that today's episode supports you in that. I think it will. If you are new to GTD, we always recommend you go back and listen to episodes 1 through 6 of the audio version of the podcast. That'll give you the introduction to the basics of GTD, the 5 steps. Today's episode number is number 126, and today's episode is a half-year review inspiration episode.
Morten: It is, it is. And this is inspired, as well as hopefully inspire you, the listener and viewer, is inspired by an event Lars and I did in Denmark. How long time is it? A month plus something? Time flies.
Lars: Yeah, about 2 months, I think, when the time— when this releases. Yeah.
Morten: And the event was the GTD Masterclass Retreat, the first one in 2025, which is a new concept that Lars and I have been developing. And the concept is that we get together some really cool GTDers who want to get good at their Horizons of Focus, want to make sure that they are working towards their internal goals and achieving their purpose on Earth, and bring all them together with Lars and me. And we were so lucky to have with us David Allen and on a castle in Denmark for 3 days, which was a blast. And the feedback was awesome. It was really good. And so we got inspired in trying to inspire you, our viewers and listeners, to do parts of what we did. It's like a taster of what you might want to have in or want to do yourself. So this is not a listen along while I mow my lawn kind of episode. Thank you, Lars, for laughing at my inadequacies. So what I'm suggesting you do is that if you want to listen to this, listen to it maybe when you do your whatever you do when you listen to podcasts. But after that, go back and listen to it in more like take notes mode, because there might be something there here today that you might want to come back to, and to make sure that you remember all the details. So anything I should have added to that, Lars?
Lars: Did you— No, I think that's a good setup. It's, uh, like you said, it was really a lot of fun, a very inspiring to be with everyone there. And we're setting something more up, and there will be more information about that as well. And we'll have an application form and set this up for future masterclass retreats as well. So I just wanted to throw that in there as well.
Morten: Yeah. So there will be a link in the show notes with an application form if you're interested to do this with us. Next time will be in Norway, and we do not know exactly where, but there's an application form where you can apply to be part of this event. It is, of course, going to cost you some money to attend, but I can guarantee you that this is really, really a good event for all that was in, you know, in I enjoyed it a lot myself. That's a good indication. And the people that were there also gave us very good feedback during and after the event itself. And that is, yeah. So without further ado, let's start with—.
Lars: Becoming a catchphrase as well.
Morten: Yeah.
Lars: I know one thing I want to add as well was just a follow-up on what we mentioned in the last episode where we talked about the Danish term, get Um, which, uh, we had the, you know, uh, a listener sent in a CD. There were 6 different, uh, songs plus 2 bonus episodes. And that was, you know, it was so well made, so much fun. Um, and the rule was that I had to, to guess, and I had 3 guesses, and I did not guess correctly. So I am just publicly admitting now that I owe Torbjörn an Easter egg. Torbjörn was the one, one of the Danish GTD trainers, a fantastic guy. Some of you will know him from the, the summer camp as well with his paper-based GTD system. Really good GTD, a really nice guy, and he, he got me. So by the time this airs, we will have, you know, gone past the, the summer camp, but I just wanted to throw that out there as well, that at the summer camp he will have received his Easter egg. Just wrapping up that, that story that we opened up last time.
Morten: Yeah. And what you could do is that to, to take it to him there. And so you have to share with others.
Lars: Yeah, maybe I will take it. I will bring it to the summer camp. But let's see. I mean, I don't know if I can make it share size for the, I don't know, 60, 70 people will be this year.
Morten: That, that the 20, 30 closest of Torbjörn's friends there.
Lars: Yes, well, I guess it all comes down to how, how many pieces you break it into. So that the chocolate, the Easter egg.
Morten: Talking of the, the summer camp, when this airs, the summer camp will be over, so you will have to, if you want to come and see us and work with us in the summer camp work on your GTD to get better, you must wait a year. I'm sorry, but we have a masterclass in the fall. Okay. Loris, top-down and bottom-up is your subject.
Lars: Yeah. So we talked about, we revisited the program in preparation for this episode and we spoke about, so what should we pick out of the program to share with everyone in the podcast? And we sort of took a stepped back and picked a few things that we thought might be of interest to everyone out there. Some of it is familiar or maybe familiar for you coming from a standard GTD perspective, and some things are, you know, different perspectives coming from the outside that may also enable you to see some, some new perspectives on your work, your life, your GTD system that you hadn't come across before. The first thing that we wanted to share is one of the exercises that we do in the Danish Level 3 seminars, which I really think is so great to spend time on. And since we label this episode an inspiration to do a half-year review, then we thought this might be a good place to start. If we maybe take a step back just to set the, give you the settings for the half-year review, it's, you know, We have the horizons of focus in GTD. We review them at different times. And, um, one of the practices for me and other GTDers, and I think Morten, you do this more frequently, but at least every 3 months, 6 months, I like to sit down and go through everything really all the way, you know, from, from all of the horizons and go through them and see that they, they sort of feel like they line up to something that, that makes sense, uh, for me. So for me, it's every 6 months. It's a summer review and it's around Christmas, New Year's review. So that's when I do it. Morten, you do it more frequently or what's your current process with this?
Morten: No. Yeah, I wouldn't call it a half-year review, but an in-depth review I do fairly often. I look at my, my system more deeply, maybe every month or something like that, just to make sure that I'm on the right track. And, and then the more you review, the less often you need to review deep. So it's more like I don't go in depth like you do, by probably not as deep as you do. But it is a way for me to every month, preferably every month, to go look at my horizons of focus, ask myself, are they aligned with what I, who I want to be and who I am? Am I on the right track? Am I having the right kind of projects on my lists? Am I working towards what's most important to me? And, but I don't do them every 6 months. I do them more often, but, and then probably not as deep as you do, but just kind of like a check-in. Am I doing the right things now?
Lars: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. And again, just to, I also wanted to highlight that to illustrate there are, you know, there is no set cadence or frequency that you need to revisit these with. You can see that, you know, Morten and I've been doing this forever. And we still do it differently. So it's really up to you. But a good solid review, whether you do it on a monthly, quarterly, every 6 months, almost all the time, we can all benefit from a really good solid deep review.
Morten: Just to put some perspective into that, a lot of the people that I meet as a coach, do not look at their Horizons of Focus documents at all. They have created it and filed it and forgotten about it until we talk about it. Yeah, yeah, well, I have this kind of document. Okay, let's look at it. And then it's either outdated or it's not them, or you don't spend enough time with your Horizons of Focus document. One of the things that I highly recommend to anyone who wants to get good at getting things done: take time to deep dive into your horizons of focus until you feel that it is now, it's really me. Look at it every day. Look at it so often that you are sure that this is you. And then continue to look at it until you get a little sick. And then look at it every week. And then look at it every month after that, when you get a little sick at looking at it. But any less than every 3 months, That is not, that is a little too much, I think. And as a rule of thumb for people, because getting things done, Lars and I have been doing this, as you said, Lars, many years, and we do it differently. We do have different approaches. The most important thing is that we do not break any of the, what you call the pillars of getting things done. If there is a pillar there, that should be, you should do some kind of review as often as you need to stay in overview and control of your life and in, in, in direction of what you think is important for you. So how often you do that, that's up to you. But now we are talking about what Lars and I am doing, and that hopefully will help you.
Lars: Back to you, Lars. Yeah. Yeah. No. So we, we spoke about how could we then revisit these, these horizons. And, and one way we do it, I think the, the standard way that we would approach this would be in the level 3 training to go top-down, meaning that we would start at the higher horizon and then we would work our way down, spend some time on each of these. And it's a great way to work with them. I've played around, sometimes we do bottom-up as well, and that's what we wanted to cover in this first part of the episode, both trying top-down and then bottom-up. For me, I've tried both. I might even do both. I think both have different, they provide different kinds of value in how I think about them and how I work with them. And the kind of thinking that they generate. So if we start from the top-down version, how might we approach that? Well, if we start at the top with the higher horizons, the top one would be purpose and principles. So really sitting down, and there are different ways to do this and playing around with them. Morton has some approaches. I've played around also. You can have, you know, AI or different books will will provide some input on how to explore this and finding your purpose. At least for me, it was good to, and it took some time to over the years establish these, but really trying to establish the purpose around the family and friends and, you know, giving something, helping others, you know, using the skills that I have. Those are the kinds of things that I would find on my Horizon 5. And they really helped me at least set sort of the boundaries and standards and, inspire, I think, for myself. And why is it interesting for me to send an email or deliver a training or have a meeting with Morten? Why is it interesting? Well, it provides me value because it's a system. Why? No. So that, that it is, it is, at least I remember it was fun to see that clear connection between the, the lower horizons and the higher ones. In how that might inspire you. So that would be the starting one, Horizon 5, really understanding the purpose and the principles, you know, the standards that you live and work by. The next step would then be to, if we take the top-down approach, would then be, all right, so we go one step down. If you were really to live that purpose, what might it look like? So that is where we would, you know, go to Horizon 4, which is vision, which, you know, you can set, you play around with the time limits. Maybe that's an inspiration for you to do this half year. You know, we, we, you might say 3 to 5 years, it might be 10 years, it might be other factors that determine the timelines that you work with. Perhaps, you know, when the kids get to a certain age or when the kids move out of home or whatever other timelines might make sense for you. But try to play around with that and really say, okay, so within, within that timeframe, if I really live my values, what does it look like? What does a normal day look like for me? What do I, what am I doing? What do I have? What experiences am I, am I having? Um, you know, when you can take different contexts, whether it's, you know, it could be career, lifestyle, finance, um, relationships, uh, you know, really explore that. That's, Still one of my favorite horizons. Moving further down or adding to that? No, moving further down. No, so the vision then would influence the goals and objectives. And that is horizon 3 in the horizons of focus. So within the next 12 to 24 months, 1 to 2 years, or perhaps at the end of next year, um, what would you want to have achieved? If we were to take some steps towards the vision that you just described based on the purpose that you have defined, what might it look like? What will you be achieving within that timeframe? So really try to specify that. And for me, there's a, a pretty big difference between the Horizons 3 and 4, where Horizon 4 is very, uh, blue sky, really far into the future thinking. And, and Horizon 3 is sort of, all right, so these these are the specific steps that I'll take. I don't know, this, this will be the steps that I take within the next 12 to 24 months, but it might be steps on a journey that takes 15 years or whatever it might be. So there's, you know, the timeframe on, on Horizon 4 can be blurry. For me, Horizon 3 makes it a lot more specific and concrete and, and, again, inspirational in the sense that I can see that this is, these are steps that will take me towards the, the vision that I have defined. Both myself and the company. Bringing that further down, we then look at the Horizon 2 areas of focus and accountability. So looking at where we are heading, what do I need to, you know, what am I accountable for moving forward, making sure that everything is in order and what should I focus on? And it's an interesting thing to draw up, especially when you're coming from the mindset of that long-term vision. Some things just stand out more clearly to you when you're coming from that, you know, 5, 10-year goal or whatever it might be within the different context. And it's, for me at least, and what I've seen from other participants, coaching clients, drawing up that areas of focus and accountability map, one for work, one for personal, is really, you know, it provides so much clarity and really really shows what you should be focusing on, where your work will be in order for you to move forward towards the vision that we have identified. Does that make sense, Juan, so far?
Morten: Absolutely.
Lars: Anything to add? Good. Then now that we took the helicopter all the way down, this would, I think, be the normal, the standard way that we would do it in a GTD training. Level 3 training. And of course, you could then look at the goals, break it down into projects within the next 12 months. I need to take these and these and these steps, or for each area of focus, making sure that everything is, you know, all the plates are spinning, you're happy with where they are. If they are not, then look into what do we then need to do to make sure that we get to where we want to be, breaking it down into projects and next action. So we get all the horizons. But I wanted to stop at Horizon 2 and then look back up because I think that was really a helpful thing for me. And that is also why I chose to share it at the Masterclass retreat. And it's probably something that David came up with and I just forgot and I just came back up with it myself. At least it seems to be the case when I come up with something. Oh yeah, David said that in 1994 or something. It seems to be the case that, that, uh, that's where those ideas do come from. Um, but at least for me, I think that, you know, having that areas of focus and accountability and looking into the future. So if we started Horizon 2 and then start to work our way up, um, for me that made it a lot, um, it added a lot more nuance and detail. To my horizons of focus. So I think the starting point for most people will be top-down, and I think that is probably the best way to start because you can really do that free. If I were just to, you know, I actually won the lottery, I have, you know, my bank account, there are so many zeros, I cannot count them. So that's sort of the thinking that at least inspires me when you see the purpose and principles, and then you break it down into that vision. So really, you know, inspirational. If I had, you know, all the time and money in the world, where could I, where could where should I go? Coming from bottom up, it, it makes it easier for me to add some more details because that blue sky thinking can really be sort of, hmm, there's at least a part of me that is pulling me back a bit. Say, yeah, okay, let's, let's maybe scale it back a bit. And are we missing something? And where are we really going? And for me, coming from, from bottom up will then add a lot more detail because that would mean that I would take my areas of focus and accountability. And let's say I would start on a personal level. And I would walk through each of those sort of main areas, you know, health and relationship and family and pets and finances and, and those sort of key, key components in the areas of focus and accountability for me. And then for each of those areas, I would say, okay, so where should that be 1 to 2 years from now? Meaning goals, meaning horizon 3. Or for this areas of focus, from a health perspective, where should I be? Where do I want to be 3 to 5 years from now on? And then what does that trigger again? Back to, back to, uh, goals and objectives perhaps. So it's, you know, you work your way up and down these, these horizons. But for me, it sort of sets, uh, a boundary, I would say maybe, or maybe not the right word, but a sort of a frame for me to think within, um, which makes it easier for me to come up with ideas and think more clearly. Um, I'm, I'm better, I think, at that kind of thinking. And that's why coming from bottom up is, is, is probably easier for me to, to add some more details also. For the business. You know, all right, we have sales, we have marketing, we have, you know, trainers, we have franchises, we have, you know, all of those different areas that you and I both work with, Morten, going for each of these areas and then say, all right, well, where do I want to be when it comes to trainers in 10 years? I think that's sort of the timeline that I have for that area. And we have all that written down in Horizons of Focus. For each of these different horizons. And it's, for me, it just makes it easier to work with. So, and I have actually both versions. I have one with the top-down and I have one with the bottom-up. And there's a clear difference in how much detail I've added to each of them. So, that was a long way of saying there's, there are things to be explored, both top-down and bottom-up. And hopefully these would provide two different perspectives and add some more detail and nuance and in the end inspiration to your GTD system.
Morten: Yeah, great. I was reminded when you were talking that one of the epiphanies I had when you walked through this at the masterclass retreat was the fact that when you take it from— well, I would actually go down one step into projects. When you look at your projects and then up to areas of focus, then that's a good way of looking at, is there coherence between what I'm moving forward every day and what I'm responsible for? And then kicking it up a notch, so up to purpose. Is what I'm doing in what projects I have, are they in coherence with what I want my life to be about? Am I doing the right things to achieve my higher horizons? Or am I moving them forwards? And that's kind of like, duh, of course. And it is so much easier to see when you go from the bottom up, or instead of going from top down. That kind of was like moment for me. It was really good. Thank you, Lars.
Lars: Yeah, no, happy, happy to hear that. And it's— that is also where I see, and you've seen this probably even more than me, but the people that organize their projects by areas of focus. You know, I did do that at some point. I don't do it anymore. But there is a nice— at least there is a nice value in seeing, all right, so these areas are areas where I am working on something, and these areas I, I'm not working on something and both can be good because if you're not working on something and you feel good about that, well, that means that that area of focus is doing well. And, and, and all is good. So, you know, give yourself a pat on the back. Um, and there will be some projects and of course there has to be projects. Otherwise we would, uh, we would be out of work. So it's, it, at least it was, I remember it from my Todoist days and it was nice to have that kind of visualization.
Morten: Yeah. I think that both has its merits, but as a sum up for me, the prize for me was when we went bottom up and it kind of like, there's some, it ticks some boxes for me that gave me a new perspective that I didn't see before. So thank you. Cool. Are we moving on to topic number 2?
Lars: Let's move on to topic number 2.
Morten: Yeah, that is horizons of focus with a spouse or without a spouse. So if you have a better half, it might be beneficial for you and your spouse to discuss that, discuss the horizons of focus and to look at them and see, are we in match? Are we in sync? And I know that you do this with your wife, and I'm going to give you the possibility to say a little about how that works for you. But I've seen this from— I've not been in a position except, you know, I've talked to my wife about my Horizons of Focus, and she agreed with them that this is a good Horizons of Focus. And I know what her is, even though she hasn't written them down. But when I see people who are, well, getting things done under their belt, trying to understand the Horizons of Focus, and when they do, it is time for you, I think. It is not a It's a suggestion from me. Talk to your spouse about this. Your better half needs to understand who you are. I don't know if that makes sense to you, but it does to me. Because the Horizons of Focus document, it tells you what is my purpose, what are my values, what principles will I not break, what is the vision I have for my life and our life together. And just to do that exercise with another person makes it possible to course correct. It could be that you are moving in the wrong direction, or maybe your spouse is moving in the wrong direction for the unity of you. So maybe you need to course correct and then you need to discuss things. And if you never take time, this might be a little strange comparison, Larissa, but I think that if you never talk about a will, you know, a will after you're dead, what do I want? It's a testament. What is that called? What is it called in English? A will? It's called a will.
Lars: Yeah, I think so.
Morten: A piece of paper where you write down what should happen after I'm not here anymore. What do I want with this? And, but if you don't write a will, it's going to be something you procrastinate. You can't talk about it. It's very difficult to talk about it with your spouse maybe. And, you know, the older you get, the more difficult that it gets. So to do this horizons of focus discussion fairly early on is a good thing. And if you're young-ish like Lars, this is a good thing. It is also good if you're not young-ish like I am old-ish, but it is still good. But the idea is that If you share your inner thoughts of where you want to go, what's your purpose, what's your values, what's your principles, it makes it possible for you to recognize, are we thinking more or less the same here about what life should be about? And that is a good thing because either you will find, yes, we do have a common ground here. We do think the same or not. And if it is not, if it is no, then you have to think about what do I need to do about this? Because this is your spouse. So I'm not saying that's a very happy thought, but it is a possible one that might occur. I've been doing this. I don't know if you've done this, but I've been doing this with a couple of, or not a couple, quite a few of my coaching clients where I have coached one of them and then suddenly this person talks to his or her spouse and they come back to me and ask me, can you help me or help us look at this together? And that is of course something I'm happy to do, and it has helped the other person who is not then a GTDer to understand the concept and principles of how to create one. So, and then the beautiful part is when you bring it together, you see, is it a fit? Are we, are our vision for the future the same, or do we need to course correct? And how has this been with your beautiful wife Cecilia? How has this worked for you? Has she created her own document?
Lars: We have a shared one. Sorry, I'm just imagining this Norwegian dating show where you are now part of the expert panel creating horizons of focus for both people and making sure that they are aligned. You have to pitch that, pitch that somewhere in Norway. No, yes, yes. So, so she, as far as I know, she has just updated the one that we have jointly. So it just has sections describing here is the, let's say, the vision. For the family, here's the vision for the kids, here's the vision for a day in her life, here's the vision for a day in my life, that kind of distribution. We have separate documents for purpose and principles, I think, and certainly separate documents for areas of focus and accountability. So we have some things shared and some things we don't have. But I haven't done the way you described. I haven't done that with coaching clients where it was, you know, both of them. But I do know from coaching clients and other GTDs how they might, you know, for some people, they would sit down and share it with a partner. And for some people, they would share it but not share that this was sort of a GTD perspective. And not in a sort of a bad way, just, you know, sitting down and talking about the future and not saying Horizon 4, but talking about the vision that you have for the future. And then, you know, your partner would engage with that and say, all right, it would be really nice in 5 years if we bought that boat. Uh, you know, so you could, you can, you can do this explicitly or you can do this, uh, implicitly. I think it's still, it can still work. And, and, you know, there's no, no, um, nothing evil, mean stuff going on by not explaining that it's, uh, it's GTD. It just, it's it's a framework that hopefully inspires some meaningful conversations about the future.
Morten: Yeah. And you don't have to tell it is like Getting Things Done thing. It might be, hmm, Getting Things Done, what's that? Well, you know, the thing that I've been, you know, doing. That might, yeah, that might not be a good way, but you can phrase it like, just let's talk about life. This is some of the things I think. What do you think about this? How does that concur with your thinking? How does it fit with who you want to be and you want us to be? And if I was going to ask Cecilia, what do you think, if you want to paraphrase her, what's the value she gets from this?
Lars: We should invite her in at some point, I guess, to share this honestly.
Morten: I should interview her about how it is to be married to Oh yeah.
Lars: Do I dare? Yeah, I think so. No, clarity, trust, confidence in the future, inspiration. I think the same, you know, the same values that you get when you do this on your own, but also trust in the other person that you are heading in the same direction, which would provide more space and calm in the relationship as well.
Morten: Yes, that's profound value of doing this is that you will understand or not if you are moving in the same direction, which is— and the confidence that you have if you do it with your family, like together. And you don't have to call it as, you know, Laura says, a Horizon Focus Document. You just talk about what's the purpose of our being together? Why are we together? You know, what are you getting out of this? What's the values that we should adhere to? You know, like loyalty, and I don't know what you want to say there, but, and what vision do we have for our life together? If you are living exactly the life we would live, how would that look and feel for us, for you? And it is a very open-ended, you know, way of inviting your better half into that discussion.
Lars: So, yeah, I agree.
Morten: Yeah, me too. So go do that, people. And you don't have to wait until your horizons of focus document is air quotes perfect. What you need to do is just to have a basic framework on what you think your represent values and principles and vision for your life is. And then discuss it. It's maybe even better if you do it without—.
Lars: I was just going to say, yeah, don't show up with a perfect one. Yeah.
Morten: No, because there is no perfect one, just yours at some stage. And if you're doing this correctly, it will be iterated for the rest of your life. This is never a document that's never finished, finished. It's like when it's finished, finished, you're dead. I'm sorry, that's the harsh reality of things because life changes. Whatever happens to us changes us and it changes our situations. And to be able to look at this with a flexible pair of hands, if you may, and then having the flexibility to change it as your life changes, I think that's a good thing. So, okay. Moving on. Yes or no?
Lars: Let's do it.
Morten: Lars has.
Lars: A very— just one thing in addition. So, now that we talk about the different horizons of focus and we keep mentioning purpose, I just, you know, we have bought a new house and we'll move in in 3 months as of this recording. And we started talking about, you know, GTD horizons of focus, we start focusing starts with yourself and you might have one with your better half, your partner. You might have one with the team as well, as you know, from the team book and what we've spoken about in the podcast. I also started looking at— so, and I think again, David has mentioned this before, what's the purpose of the living room? What's the purpose of the kitchen? Because we're talking about, so how will we move in? How will we place everything? What do we want each room to be and what would the purpose be? So that is just, it's just something I'm exploring right now. I just wanted to throw that out there as well. It sounds like you've had some of the same thoughts, Morten.
Morten: Yeah, but this is, you know, what's the purpose with the living room is the question that I would ask for anyone who is doing the natural planning. Why are we remodeling our living room? What's the purpose with it? How should it look and feel when it's done. Why are we doing this? So that's— but it is then moved down. What's the purpose of my life? What's my values? How does it look when I live the life I want, have the experiences I want? And that can be then tied into the natural planning model so that you can make sure that you use that to remodel your living room so that it fulfills your higher horizons as well, together with your significant other.
Lars: Yes. And just to, because it came up when we, so it's a pretty standard house, not very big, could use one or two more rooms, but then we picked this one. And so the living room, how should we then model that? How should we decorate that? And the starting point, if we weren't thinking about it, was just, well, what does everyone else do? All right, well, you need a big TV and you need a couch and you need a, you know, blah blah blah. But for us it was, yeah, okay, so we definitely want a TV. We want to, you know, sit down and be able to watch some stuff as a family. But maybe half the living room should actually be for creative stuff, should be for playing board games, should be for drawing stuff, should be for making music, should be, you know, so really, again, what is the purpose? The purpose for us would be to have a shared space to bring in the whole family, making sure that not everyone is just sitting in their own room with their own phone doing their own thing, that we really just come together.
Morten: So that sounds great.
Lars: Just wanted to throw that out there.
Morten: It's something that when you're playing with right now, when you finish decorating, invite me.
Lars: Yes, to do an episode. Moving in with GTD. Yeah.
Morten: Board games with GTD. Now we are going to move on to a third thing that we wanted to bring to your attention as still inspired from the GTD Masterclass. And that is, I think it's a Greek word, apophenia. So Lars, what, uh, is apophenia?
Lars: Yeah.
Morten: How does it tie into GTD?
Lars: And I am no expert on apophenia. I'm no expert. Um, I, I do know, um, some things about the brain and how it, how it works. And that, that was really sort of the, the starting point. Um, apophenia came up because I was looking into the the way that your brain might be hiding information from you. And that is not that it is hiding it, but it is trying to make sense of a world, put together an, an image, a picture of the world for you that is not that overwhelming to look at. So in, in many ways, the brain would go in and, and simplify things. It impacts your vision, how you think about things. Um, so it— apophenia is just one example of that. And apophenia is the tendency to perceive meaningful connections between unrelated things. So the brain would help you see patterns, but that would then simplify things, which wouldn't then mean you'd be missing other things. You look at clouds and you would see a face, or you would conspiracy theories, you know, you start to see patterns between things or gambling. You start to, all right, well, I've been, you know, losing for so many, so many rounds now. I must be, must be winning soon when in fact the statistics are still the same as they were before. So it's not to say that apophenia is the thing for you to go and research and look into, but just as an example of one of the ways that the brain works works, that may mean that you are not seeing some things. And that's been sort of an area of interest, let's say, to not confuse Horizon 2, but an area of interest for me that, you know, I'm living my life, but what am I not seeing? You know, the last thing the fish notices is water. What, what am I not seeing in the, in the water that I'm swimming in?
Morten: Yeah. And what are you not seeing, Lars?
Lars: Yeah, exactly. And I, we have some examples. That's what I'm exploring.
Morten: Yeah.
Lars: Sorry.
Morten: Have you found some examples that you can share with us?
Lars: Yeah. So, so, so the starting point was really to take a step back and say, okay, so how could we then explore this? How could we, you know, there'll be areas, there'll be projects, there'll be goals, there'll be things going on in your life that you're just not, you're not seeing all the details. So I played around with 3 different areas. Family, health, and finances. And I picked those because I think for most people they would be rather common. So if we were to start with the family part, you know, a story that you might be telling yourself, those of you who are familiar with Crucial Conversations, this concept will be familiar. And I think this is one of the starting points for my exploration of this topic was actually from Crucial Conversations. But it could be for a family. Our family is doing well. We enjoy ourselves. The kids are thriving. We don't have any major conflicts. That might be the story that I would be telling myself. I'm looking at my areas of focus and accountability. Looks good. But is that then the whole picture? Well, the doing well part, what does that mean? Well, it could be the absence of conflict. And, you know, in daily life, it's all working okay. But would everyone in the family say the same if you were to ask your partner, just like you just said, or if you were to ask children or extended family? They might help you see some things that you are not seeing. Or it could be things that we have some other assumptions that we just, you know, that would then hide things for us. It could be that we talk every day means, okay, so we have good communication. But in fact, do we then talk about the important things? Do we just talk about who's picking up the kids and who's doing the groceries? Yeah. But do we talk about feelings and needs and dreams? Again, coming back to to what you were just talking about. What are we each missing but have gotten used to living without? What are taboo topics that we avoid because they're uncomfortable or not urgent in quotes? Or what invisible roles have we fallen into and are they still fair and healthy? There are things here again that we, you know, at least sit down and explore. You know, if, if you could change something about your family life, what would would it be? Or, you know, different check-ins, mini check-ins during the, the week. How are things actually doing? Or one of the examples was creating a family radar, you know, self-assess areas like presence, playfulness, emotional support, conversations, or explore breaking routines. Just, you know, if, if you're always doing the dishes, then let your partner do it, or the other way around, or should we, you know, how should we, how should we do things differently or even have that shared family conversation of, you know, what's important in our, in our family. Exactly. So that could be one example with the family part and trying to explore areas where we are, you know, patterns are hiding things that we just, just aren't seeing.
Morten: Yeah. And it is also something that's When you are forming a family or a company, or if you are, you know, it has the culture will shape the experiences. So you create a culture in your family or in your department or in your team that is either healthy or not. And if you're not questioning that culture by asking yourself, are we actually doing the right things? Are we actually— and then compare it with your Horizons of Focus document on a regular basis. That might be a very well-missed opportunity. One of the things that I've been having as a pet peeve for many years is that meeting culture in companies are often not very good. Too many meetings, too little meaning. And what I'm telling people, that is the reason you're having this is because you've stopped asking questions. Why are we having these meetings? Why are we doing things the way we are doing things? And then when you start doing that, then does it have the right shape, form, length? Should we do it differently? And if you don't ask that as a team or a group or a family, that might be, you know, something that can be a stumbling stone down the road.
Lars: So yeah, good one. I just wanted to add the one about health as well. And again, you know, you can, I would play with AI with this on this one as well to, you know, help me ask some questions that I might not have thought about. I'm pretty sure that most AIs will come up with some good questions for you to reflect on. Questions. Yeah, exactly. I mean, especially health-related, right? It could be that your initial perception would be, you know, it's pretty much under control. I run a couple of times a week. I eat reasonably well. I rarely get sick. But, you know, okay, so what does it mean? Do we have any sort of hidden— are there any sort of patterns that are hiding the things that we might— that we should be seeing? You know, what does good health mean? If I run twice a week or if I eat reasonably well, it's not necessarily enough for me. It doesn't mean that I'm healthy. It just means that I'm, you know, healthy is not equal to the absence of sickness. It just means that we have not gotten sick yet, for example. So I'm not trying to start some bad vibes or bad mood here, but just to exemplify some of those questions that we might want to be asking. It could also be that, you know, all of this, you know, sitting down, at least this one struck me when I was playing with it that, well, I run twice a week and read reasonably well. So, so that's probably good, right? But in reality, it's, you know, when I'm not out training, I'm sitting down a lot. And with all the research coming up, you know, that have come up in recent years, I probably should take more breaks. I probably should go for a walk more. I perhaps should have a health check. I think I spoke to a doctor not too long ago and she said, you know, I'm 45. Men around my age are the worst at going to the doctors. We just never go. So just to reflect on, you know, when was the last time I had a health check? Are there any aspects of health I'm ignoring because they either seem invisible or in quotes, good enough? Are there any— this one caught me as well— are there any signs I've normalized, like poor sleep or minor pains that might signal deeper issues? And at least, you know, poor sleep with a little one who is now 15 months, but still, there is stuff you normalize. And I think, you know, in some cases it might be good. Again, the way that the brain works in many cases helps us. So, but what I'm trying to explore here is is, you know, what am I then missing? So it's some of those questions that I just wanted to plant that idea to people out there to reflect on. And that would certainly be one of the bigger reviews where I would pick this up. But really, you know, explore this for yourself, come up with some questions, ask someone else to give you input, play with AI to give you some input. But at least Give it some thought because you might— it's one of the worst things that I saw actually recently when I was together with some other people that people, you know, they tell so many stories that they then completely miss reality. And it's such a pity that, you know, it really takes up a lot of space in my brain to make sure that I am not missing anything, anything obvious. And perhaps this would help me notice.
Morten: It. Getting Things Done and psychology use the same, what do you call it, term or terminology, cognitive dissonance. And in GTD, we use that when you have something in your world that is not what you would like it to be. When you find that cognitive dissonance, you have the opportunity to do something about it. It and create a project and then change that into something better. In psychology, they use this same term cognitive dissonance a little differently. It also means what I just walked you through, but it also means that we create stories about things that we have cognitive dissonance on. We, for example, let's say that you've done something you know you should not have done, and then you create a story on why it It was correct of you of doing that. And those are the stories we tell ourselves to survive and not need to change. So I'm just letting that hang there. So if you have cognitive dissonance of something you know you're doing that is not good, stop telling stories and start doing something with it, like creating. Decide outcome. For example, I want to lose weight, or I want to start exercise, or I want to stop yelling at my kids, or I want to, you know, whatever is your apophenia.
Lars: Which again was the sort of starting point for this, but there are many, I think, examples of this. Yeah, I think that, I think that we covered everything around, I just wanted to plant that seed as well for this, this half-year review.
Morten: And before we end, I just want to remind people that we do appreciate if we're giving you some value, you know, a maximum stars review if you think it is worth it. It on, on the platform that you see this. I know that Spotify is easy and to give us a review. You can also do it on, on Apple Podcasts, and even there is possibility to do it on Audible. Actually, Audible carries our podcast and Google Podcasts as well. I think Podcaster, they are going to shut down. I think this but as long as it is, give it a review if there's where you're listening, or subscribe and hit that notification bells. I think the— and like, I think the young people say about YouTube. So, so that was very youngish of you. Youngish. Thank you. And follow us if you want on LinkedIn. Both Lars and I have opened up for people to just follow, or if you want to connect with us, just write GTD in the, you know, connect with a message. We'll understand where you're coming from and connect with you. And we share things there that you might find inspirational or helpful. So, Lars, are you ready to take us out?
Lars: Yeah, let me just, just one, one last tip for, for people out there. The one thing that I did differently, I found myself having some time alone last week, actually, as of this week. What? And yeah, I know it never happens with the 3 young boys, but it happened. I was at a soccer cup, international football cup in Denmark, where my oldest was playing, and it was a very social event. So I thought we had to be there all the time. It turned out that we did not. So I was there alone. In my car. I slept in the back under the stars on the beaches of Denmark. And that sort of inspired the half-year review now. And one thing that I did differently, which was what I wanted to share, was that I had a document, as you described earlier, I had it in notes, and I took some of the planning and stuff that we played around with, with the kids in previous years, where we had made it very visual. Visual. So I took the, the Freeform app and started to make a visual version of, of my horizons of focus and how I wanted to, you know, what I wanted to see my, where I wanted to put my attention in the next 12 months. So I took the whole document, I picked out the things that I was engaged. So stuff I wanna do with my wife, kids, summer house, the new house, found pictures to represent all that and started drawing and started to make it really visual. And, and that was really cool for me. And I just wanted to remind people that, you know, play around perhaps with different formats. You might be— because I get stuck in the same formats. And so I just wanted to throw that out there to see if you— maybe you should try something new. It's very text-based, then try some visual. If you're very visual, then perhaps do some text-based. I know you've played with that as well.
Morten: Well, I've been playing with that before, but after I married my beautiful wife Lola, she had this as a way of— I wouldn't call it plan the next year, but wish for what the next year should be. So we do this every year end, we do it together. And what would we like to be see happening in the years to come. And it's— and she's more, you know, scrapbooky about it, which means that she's looking, looks in magazines and cuts out both pictures and words that she wants, I think, the life to be about the next year. I'm more like you in the freeform app. To create it there because it gives me more freedom to do what I— but then we print it or I print it and I cut it out and I stick it to this big paper, what do you call, cardboard board that we have and then it stays on the wall for that year and we come and look at it every now and then and look at it. Did we achieve any of these these things, how was it? So it gives us a good way forward.
Lars: Yeah, it's really cool. And you showed the pictures of it at the masterclass retreat. It's really cool to do. But so that is my additional last tip. Find your car, drive to the beach, sit there and look. Cool stuff will perhaps show up. At least it did for Yeah.
Morten: I'm sure it could do for you as well, dear listener and viewer.
Lars: And then the normal take us out, the, the normal taglines is that we would, you know, send you to the gtdsummercamp.com website. But since this recording is released after the summer camp took place in 2025, you can certainly still go to gtdsummercamp.com and have a look around and learn more. But you will see reference to the 2025 edition. So we usually pick up planning in the fall of the year. So in August, September, we'll start to meet and we'll set up a new site there. So I think the plug for this episode has to be the MasterClass retreat application. So for those of you who think that this might be for you, an exclusive group of people, somewhere in Norway, somewhere in Denmark. We're setting this up now and then really working these, these higher horizons together with at least Morten and myself. There will be a link in the show notes there for you to fill out.
Morten: Yeah, and it is a small group. It is, we've set a maximum of 12. I think that there's a good amount of people. And prepare to, if you come, if your application is accepted and you accept the invitation that we send you, it's going to be really good. It's going to be, as one of them said, this is life-altering for me. It's changed my life from now on and out. This has changed. And that is an investment for who you want to be and where you want to go. A way of elevating that, um, thinking to a new level.
Lars: So, yeah. Okay. Completely agree. And the other plug that we share is mytolearning.eu because that is where you can go and find the different country websites, learn more about what we do in each of the Nordics+ countries. So mytolearning.eu. Eu. You'll find links to the website in Norway, the website in Denmark, the other countries, information about GTD training, coaching, other trainings that we deliver, newsletter, contacting Morten, contacting myself. All of that you will find from weitzellearning.eu. If you are outside the Nordic Plus, then cruciallearning.com is the place to go to find your local partners.
Morten: It Yes. And if you'd like to get coached by either Lars or me, it's possible to schedule a short meeting with us and to discuss the options, and preferably within the Nordic region. That would be good because that's our turf. Okay. I am going to say goodbye as I've always done, and I probably will do until we stop this at some point. And that is to say, Until next time, stay safe and stay productive.
Lars: Bye-bye, everyone.
