85. How Good A GTDer Are You?

Transcript

Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.

Morten: Hi and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from Vital Learning. I am Morten Røvik, and as always, I'm here with my good friend and colleague Lars Rothschild Henriksen. Privet and merhaba, Lars.

Lars: Privet, Morten. Good to see you as always, and good to be with our listeners out there. We always start off by reminding you of the purpose of this podcast, which is to help you learn GTD or become even better GTDers. If you are a regular listener, don't forget to subscribe in your favorite podcast player if you haven't already. And same goes for those of you who are watching on YouTube. Be sure to subscribe and like and hit the bell and whatever other buttons will help you stay up to date with the show and us and also help surface the content to other people. Might benefit from GTD. If this is your first time listening or you're new to GTD, we always recommend you go back and listen to episodes 1 through 6 to get an introduction to the basics of getting things done. And today's episode number is 85, and today's episode is titled "How Good a GTDer Are You?".

Morten: Indeed it is. And just to clarify a little, I said "Merhaba" in the beginning there, tried to throw you off. It's because we've just learned that there's been a big earthquake in Turkey, and our hearts are with you there who are in Turkey. This is a terrible catastrophe. I just want to give a little shout out to the people in Turkey who might be listening. On that cheery note, we can move on to more trivial things about getting things done. We are going to look at something that's, you know, been called the GDD Practitioner Competency Evaluation. And can you give us a little background on what is this, Loris? Why is it relevant at all?

Lars: Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I believe, as we were talking about this in the pre-show, we made an episode a while back about this evaluation. And there are really 4 pages to this that we use at different times. At least when I use them, mostly in coaching to help people see where they are in their own GTD practitioner journey, I would say. So the thinking behind this was to really, you know, the purpose of this episode was to just to reflect on your own practice and consider where you might be able to improve your GTD practice in 2023 or looking even further ahead. At least that was my starting point when thinking about this, this episode.

Morten: Yeah.

Lars: Yeah.

Morten: And it is, for those of you who've never seen this before or heard about this before, it is a, it's a 3, 4-page PDF that we use when we coach clients and we train trainers. We look at this as a way to unearth where on your GTD journey are you. If you've just started with Getting Things Done, you will of course be at a different place than if you've been doing this for 10 years. When I say "on Earth," I'm trying to allude to the fact that when you are learning Getting Things Done, you have some blind spots, some places where you're not as good as you should be. I'm sure some of you can relate to that. The Weekly Review is maybe not so easy to get nailed down. But it has way more depth than that.

Lars: I think also from my clients, I've seen in several cases that there were, you know, aspects of GTD that they just didn't know about. That, you know, you know, perhaps there are certainly the evaluation will often, you know, show you I'm fairly good at this, I could be better at that. But there are also aspects of GTD that they just never saw. Oh, that's right, I, I could use GTD for that as well. Um, so, so that I think has been, been helpful, at least for the clients that I've worked with. And I think also from the episode that we did way back when was to focus on those first 3 pages, where I think today we'll focus on the one that is also part of the, the Level 2 seminar, to just give people an idea of where they are in the GTD journey and what they might be, be missing, what they could add if they want to.

Morten: Yeah, yeah. And that is called the, the path of GTD mastery. And I'm showing this on screen for those of you who are looking at YouTube. You can see this. For those of you who cannot see, it's a matrix, which means it looks like a spreadsheet with some information in the, in the, in the header section. And there is a— what would you call that section? A1 column in a spreadsheet.

Lars: Very well. Come to my spreadsheet.

Morten: I'm sorry. Yeah, I know, because you're that kind of guy. But it is for trying to explain how it looks. It's just a tabella where you can put or write down where you are, where you think you are. So Lars, how would you introduce this?

Lars: Well, I think the first part, and, you know, we'll link to it in the show notes as well. So those of you who might be listening on audio, if you are in a place where you can just sit and listen and perhaps have a look at your screen, then we'll link to this in the show notes as well. I think the key starting point here is to understand the top part, which are the different stages that you could be in when it comes to implementation of each of these steps. So the 5 I's that we have, first one being information, meaning, so I have enough information. I have the information to engage with this topic. Second one is instruction, meaning I understand how to do it if I wanted to. The third one is installation. I have a— exactly. Third one is installation. I have a working structure with real content in it. Number four is implementation. So that means that I'm utilizing key components consistently. And the fifth one is integration, meaning I'm focused on the results. My trusted system is allowing me to produce. So it's just sort of a, it's just how you do things.

Morten: And it is a way to describe your journey from just, I've heard about Getting Things Done, I can start if I want to, you know, and then up to mastery, it's integrated. I used to, when I tried to explain this to people in a, you know, not using the 5 I's, I would say that, Some things that you need to learn, that you need to internalize to make it work for you, is that you have to go from practicing something until it becomes a habit. And then at some point, the habit becomes a routine, and then it disappears in the background. You're just doing that part of getting things done. I think that is another way of explaining the 5 I's—Information, Instruction, installation, implementation, and integration. So when it's integrated, you don't have to think about it. It disappears in the background, becomes your modus operandi, MO, or whatever it's called in English. Yes.

Lars: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, that's a good way to say it. And then the way, at least we, you know, we walk through it in the Level 2 seminar, if I remember correctly, is that there are sort of 3 headlines that we walk through that describe different sections. Foundation is the top one, then we have totally integrated system, and the last one is dynamic orientation. So I think the straightforward approach would be to start with the top one.

Morten: Yes. So the foundation is the basics of day-to-day control. So how well are you doing, you know, the control part of getting things done is the 5 steps. So how well are you doing the 5 steps? Are you clarifying and organizing all all the emails that come into your world and parking the result of that in your system, in your calendar or in your list system. And you will then rate yourself on a scale from 1 to 5 where 5 is this, I got this, I don't have to think about it, it just happens. Would you take number 2?

Lars: Yeah, so I think so. So the first question really alludes to, so how are you feeling on, you know, on a day-to-day basis when it comes to TCD? And then the subsequent questions dive into specific areas of that day-to-day control. So the second one is clear processing of outcomes and next actions. So how is that clarifying step going? Are you doing well when it comes to, you know, defining the desired outcomes that you're looking to achieve? Reaching those next actions, defining them in your system. How well is that going? Because I'm— one of the things that we play around with typically in seminars is, for example, this definition of next actions. Are you finding the right next action? Could I see you take that next action? If we stop the seminar right now, would you be able to do it if you had the tools that you needed or the people that you needed to talk to, whatever it might be? And it's I don't know, there is no step that is the most important one. But I, you know, lately, I think from the seminars, when people, if they were to highlight one step besides the weekly review, if we were to call that a step, the clarify step, it really seems that this, you know, to help people overcome that procrastination, to make it more clear, to give them that table of contents for their projects, for example. That, that clarify step is really important. So again, coming back to the listeners, how well are you doing on this one? Is there anything you can do to improve your game when it comes to this step?

Morten: And then have clear boundaries, you know, don't mix things up. And, you know, the reminders, you know, the clear categories of the reminders that you might have, One that's specifically really important for everyone who wants to get better at this: make sure that you don't mix up your projects with your Next Actions. I was looking in a client's system today, and it is clear that he has created Next Actions that were really projects. It's more than one step, but he didn't take the time to reflect long enough until he understood that. So make sure that you are not mixing projects and Next Actions. And make sure that you're using the categories, the, the other categories like Waiting for, Someday, Maybe, Reference, and Incubate. Someday, Maybe is in a good manner so that you're not putting something where it doesn't belong. So when you open your sock drawer, you should only find socks. That makes sense.

Lars: But no, it absolutely doesn't.

Morten: And I think you don't find next actions in the waiting for.

Lars: Yeah, there's a bit of a delay today in our feed. Sorry about that. No, I just wanted to add, you know, so you mentioned you saw projects that were really, or next actions that were really projects. I just saw with a coaching client last week where there were some projects that weren't projects, but they were areas of focus. So again, making sure that you have the right places where these things can land.

Morten: I'm sorry, can I just pop in? Because I love this. David says that the desired outcome is how does done look like, or what does done mean? What is done for you? And then the next section is what does doing look like? And you focus on is this done or doing? And that helps a lot of people go back to the basics of GTD.

Lars: No, that's a nice way to describe it. I will steal that one for the next, next, next time I have the chance to throw that one in.

Morten: I think it is in the book.

Lars: The next one on the list is labeled Collection and Backlog Under Control. And of course, that big backlog that many people start off with. Wow, that feels great to get out of the way. I just saw it 2 weeks ago now in a seminar with some people. We really overloaded some web service or email service somewhere around in their company. A lot of heavy lifting, a lot of, you know, thousands and thousands and tens of thousands of emails that were being moved around. I had a client the other week where we were doing this and it just completely killed his battery. I don't think that the battery was used to that kind of workload. So it actually, yeah, it simply killed the machine and we had to reconnect on the on the virtual call because it just drained the battery completely. So, um, make sure you have that backlog under control. Um, some great tips for that as well. I think we've mentioned that in previous podcasts.

Morten: Yeah, and, and, and just for you, getting things done is about feeling good about what you're doing and what you're not doing. And then this Now I have some person— there's, uh, we need to stop. Okay, I have about 2 seconds. I just, I will just pause. Um, then we will look at regular weekly review sustains the system. If you know that if you're not doing weekly review, David Allen said that you're not doing GTD. And giving you a little Understanding of why is this important is that, you know, the 5 steps is fairly easy to understand, that you have to get things out of your head into a system. Take it out of your head, place it somewhere, then clarify what everything means to you, and then park the result of that thinking in a system. And for not losing the overview and let your brain take back the capacity or drain your head with that capacity of remembering what you're not doing right now. You help your brain by looking at everything so that your brain can relax and feel in control of what you're not doing exactly right now. How would you describe— what wins do you have with your weekly review when you are doing them on a good on a regular basis, what happens?

Lars: Calm. Like, just like you said, feeling good about what you're not doing and what you're doing and getting that overview. I think for me, you know, sometimes there will be quicker reviews. Sometimes there'll be more in-depth ones. Just had a really nice in-depth one on Friday last week. And I really, really needed that because it was just, you know, it's just nice to see everything, see that everything was in its place, even though I'm working on the right things and just you know, as I, as I went through it, I also had this feeling of, wow, was that it? Because again, and I see that so frequently also in seminars that people tend to, you know, when it's in your head, it really takes up a lot of space and that worry that can show up when you don't revisit those lists on a regular basis. And when you do that good thorough weekly review, yeah, do it. So hopefully many out there will be on a good implementation slash integration level when it comes to these ones.

Morten: Yeah, and it is something you have to work on to make happen. And there are some, you know, we've been covering this before, but there are some things holding you back from doing your weekly review. Fear of what other people will think about you if you take time to think and reflect. And if you think and reflect for 2 minutes, you will understand why you must think and reflect. So take time for this. This is good for you, good for the company, good for you as a person, good for the for the, the moving forward of the things you've committed to do something about.

Lars: Yeah, so that's also one of the things that I really appreciate about the new seminar is that there's so much more of a focus on making this work for your team. Because I'm guessing by far the, the biggest majority of the GTDers out there may be likely be lone wolves, GTD wolves in, in their own companies. And, you know, I really like the, the effort that, that we're trying to really push this and help people that attend the seminar make this a standard, make it acceptable practice, make it unacceptable practice to not do a weekly review really coming back to them, really keep thinking these, these steps into a way the team works. I think that's, that's going to help a lot of people going forward.

Morten: Indeed. Then we've finished the foundation part of this evaluation and then we are moving on to what we call the totally integrated system. And, and that has some headlines. Will you take the first one, Lars?

Lars: Yes. So when we spoke first about the foundation part, we talk about the basics of day-to-day control. Then we sort of zoom out a bit, I would call it, in this totally integrated system and say, so how's it going when we look at the week-to-week control? How are we doing week to week? Are we working on the right things? So we're starting to zoom out now and, and looking, uh, more towards the horizon where we, we're more focused on, on control in the first aspect. Now we're focused on the perspective part. I would, I would argue in this totally integrated system. So just your, you know, feeling, you know how it works. You have enough information. If you have a structure with some content in it, are you already utilizing it or really is it already, already integrated? So that's kind of check. And, and, you know, at least I remember when I attended the, the level 2 seminar, when I came across this for the first time, it was nice sort of a, a check-in on this and make, yeah. I actually feel pretty good about where we, where we are heading right now. So hopefully some people will experience that as well when we, when they go through this.

Morten: Yeah. And the second item here is regularly recalibrate project inventory. And if you're not doing this, you will understand that your projects become stale. Some are not moving, some of them maybe has, you know, has passed their best before date and can really be scrapped. And, um, but should you just remember to recalibrate, um, it's important. I had a coaching client today where we had a very in-depth discussion on how could he feel good about, um, the projects he's not doing right now, because he had 25 projects that was active with 25 next actions, and they all happen in this PC list, which is not a very good, good place to have it. So, so we were, we were thinking about that, and one of the things that we found was that he really needed to make sure he did the, the balancing of active and inactive projects. So he created Decide outcomes past, and the same for next actions past. That way he can then just drag what he will not work on this and maybe next week. And then he will do a weekly review and then he will put things back or take them out again.

Lars: So, yeah, exactly. And that's just, I think, you know, basically as for as long as we've had this podcast, that's really been an area of focus for me to make sure that I have the right number of projects. And again, on a lower level, I just, you know, this week, I think, actually, you know, started to move some things around again, because again, there was this feeling of not overwhelmed, but feeling that I, again, I didn't get to do all the things that I wanted to do today. And, you know, I'm just, you know, that's just setting yourself up for failure. So stop, you know, feeling bad about these things. If they were important, get them done. If they're not, park them on the list and then, you know, do them tomorrow. So you know, reorganizing those kinds of things is just so, so valuable in, especially in feeling good about all the things that you're, you're getting done and not getting done. Next one on the list in totally integrated system is topic development and project planning skills. And to me, this, this means more of that, that longer-term perspective and actually coming back to the projects and kind of planning them out. So when does it make sense to do this? As we mentioned last year, you know, that kind of Gantt chart planning that I was doing about 6 months ago now to try to get an overview of all the new things that were coming with the transition to Survival Learning, that kind of, you know, structure and setting all that up. And, and of course, the natural planning model to help you really flesh out those projects. Episode 10, for those of you who have not come across that before, be sure to visit that one. That's a, that's a, that's a good episode for those projects that that do need some more, more thinking. So yeah, episode 10, have a look at that one.

Morten: Yeah, and then that goes for the next item on the list. Like, it would say the sustainable total life management system in place and working is where you can encompass your whole life into your GTD system, not just your work life but your personal life as well, so that you can make sure that you have a total overview. So you make a balance between work life and that you are making meaningful progress on whatever is most important for you.

Lars: Which leads us to productivity on the long term as well. I would say, you know, that, you know, because some people will be really good at, you know, some of the people that I come across at least will be really good at forcing themselves to get things done and thinking they're productive and not recognizing how productive they could be if they had spent, you know, the, all the effort that they they use in forcing themselves to be productive, if they had spent that in a smarter way, how much more productive they actually could be. And that only goes so long. You're not able to work and work and work. You need breaks as well. For example, just a simple example of that long-term productivity to make that sustainable. That's part of this for me as well. Indeed. The last one, dynamic orientation.

Morten: Exactly. And here it gets a little, could get a little fluffy. So, but ability to navigate change. What does that mean? Well, life throws you curveballs. You can't see them, but when they hit you smack in the face and you have to lie down for some time or something happens that really tosses you off your game. How do you navigate that? How do you make sure that that doesn't destroy your focus, your ability to be present? And the way that this Getting Things Done system is for exactly for this. There will come change in your life. There will come some surprises you cannot see. And when you have your, as David Allen would say, ducks in a row, where you have everything, you know, thought through, you have a well-functioning system, you know what's important for you, you have a horizon of focus defined. So you know, what's, what's my values here? So when something happens, it makes it easier for you to navigate that.

Lars: Change. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And making those decisions. And again, that can be on the larger scale that I think is probably what is being referenced here. But it could also be, you know, someone pops into your office asking if you can help on something, you know, making that kind of decision. Well, that again requires that you have the system so you know what you've committed to and be able to evaluate that up against, you know, evaluate up against the thing that just walked in the door. What are you going to do about that versus what you already have committed to? Next one on the list, execute on any outcome. So for me, this is This is one of the things that I think really inspired me when I came across this one for the first time, because when you have those outcomes defined, whether it's, you know, the outcome could be a short-term project that you're working on, or it could be a 5-year vision that you're working towards, that you can, that you actually have the ability to work towards any of those. I just found that really inspiring when I came across that, that, you know, yeah, wow, I'm actually, this step that I'm taking, you might just be sending an email, giving someone a call, but this is one step on the path to the vision that I have for us as a family in 2029 or whatever it might be, you know. So, so, so that one, and I know this from clients as well, that this can be sort of an inspiring thing to reflect on that, you know, you might not, when you sit down, you look at your next actions list. So yeah, I'm calling someone, I'm emailing someone, I'm attending a meeting. It might not sound that inspiring, but hopefully these are steps again towards some, some bigger goals or missions or whatever it might be for you that that you're looking to achieve.

Morten: Indeed. And what does that mean? As I interpret this, Loris, I don't know if you will be agreeing with me, would be that whatever you're doing in life and work is in alignment with your higher horizons, what you need to get done when you need to get it done. Does it mean the same for you?

Lars: Yeah, and I think I would, would perhaps add that, you know, that the processes are aligned, meaning that you adapt those processes to the way that you need them to be. So, so how you use GTD will be different from the next person, and the ability to navigate within the GTD framework but still adapt it to the way that suits your needs is really a key skill of an advanced GTDer. So that's what I, that's what I take with me from this one.

Morten: Indeed. What would you say about ability to generate situational awareness?

Lars: What does that mean? For me, this, this leads back to, you know, when, when we talk about lists in GTD, all of these we can consider maps. So you'll bring out these maps at certain points in time when you need to see them. And we have some recommendations, for example, a weekly review and bring out your projects list. But in, you know, when it comes to any of the lists, bring them out when you need them. So for me, this is, this is actually one of those things where the ability to generate situational awareness is to, you know, bring out the maps that you need whenever you need them. So when, for example, bigger shifts make, you know, make their way to your life, that you have the appropriate lists to, to bring out and support you in reorienting yourself in time and space. So I think that's, that's what I take with me from, from that one. I don't know about you.

Morten: Yeah, I'm reminded of the Level 2 project and priorities seminar video with Rosa there, where she's on an airport and her flight is cancelled. And so she needs to, you know, the situational awareness there is what can I do where I am? If something changes, in my reality, suddenly something is cancelled or an opportunity arises. How do you handle that? And yeah, that's how I would just a little adding to that, what you just said. Room and clarity to focus on that which is most meaningful. Well, what does that mean to.

Lars: You? I think I would boil it down to Are you present when you need to be? That's at least what it means to me, that, you know, that you can sit down and obviously the, the most meaningful things, the higher horizons. As we record this, we'll soon be heading to a cabin in, in Norway, in the mountains, spending time with my sister, my, my family, and just enjoying life and being present with them and not having anything else spinning around in my head. So the ability to stay present and, you know, have that, you know, that things don't interrupt you, or at least you have the process to capture things when they do interrupt you. So you have the tools at hand and you're able to get them out of the way and they don't stay in your head, meaning that you trust the system, you trust the process, and you can stay present with that, which is most meaningful.

Morten: Exactly. I'm looking at the room and clarity. The room is for room inside your brain to think clearly with clarity. And that kind of, if you have the one, you will have the other. So if you have space inside your thoughts, clarity will come and you will be able to focus. On whatever it is that's most meaningful. Like David Allen would say something like that. Maybe you want to just take a nap. That might be the most meaningful thing to do.

Lars: Very meaningful thing to do.

Morten: Yeah. Yeah. And that is most meaningful right now. Yeah.

Lars: So exactly.

Morten: Last one on the list.

Lars: Yeah. Day to day is aligned with your bigger game. So I think we kind of touched on this already when we spoke about the execute on any outcome is that you can, you know, really feel that the steps you're making on your average Tuesday morning is actually what you need to be, need to be doing and see that it actually, you know, leads you to the vision and supports the purpose that you've defined. So again, one of those really, you know, so, so much of the value in our work and life really comes from knowing these higher horizons and, you know, feeling that you'd make those steps. It just makes everything so much more fun. I think that's what I would boil it down to.

Morten: Yes, me too. The same. I'm reminded of that I have a coaching client or several of them right now, but one of them, we did our Higher Horizons journey together where we mapped out his Higher Horizons and to see the energy returning to him, his confidence coming back, that Yeah, really, I need to make some changes there, and I know now exactly why I need to make them, because they are not in— my life is, or my work is not in alignment with my higher horizons. So if you want to win at your bigger game, first you need to understand what is your bigger game, and then you have to make sure that you are, you know, ticking off one next action at a time to get where you want to get. I'm using an analogy. I'm very good at analogies, or am I? Maybe not. I have a tendency of making them very complex and to mix different analogies together. And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Lars: That's part of the charm of the Vital Learning podcast is that we make up.

Morten: We make it up as we go along. No, one of the analogies I use is that your horizon of focus could lead you to understand where you want to go. And you will then have what I call a future anchor, an anchor you put sometime, somewhere in the future. And then you just have the chains of the anchor, just go one chain at a time and then at the end of your life, you will be, you know, where you're supposed to be. And it's just one next action after another, and suddenly you're there. Yeah. And the idea with this whole document that we've been looking at now is just to— where you can put yourself in this. Where do you belong right now? And are you doing the right things and are you moving in the right direction? And hopefully this episode was helpful for you. I don't know if— yeah, are we at the end, Loris?

Lars: I think so. Just two thoughts from my end. First, just building on what you just said about working with a coaching client and establishing those higher horizons. Again, it's just so valuable to work with GTD and to help people with this. So I'm just reminded that that right now we are working a lot in Denmark in trying to find new trainers to be certified within organizations. So for those of you listening from Denmark or in the Nordics in general, if you're looking to become a certified trainer, learn to teach this. Again, this new seminar is just so much fun to deliver. It's really easy for people to get started with GTD. I think, you know, people out there that are listening probably came across GTD from the books, and it can be daunting to start off with GTD. But I think this they've just done an excellent job with the new seminar to just make it approachable, make it easy. I just, you know, it was just so clear in the first seminars that we did that the way that people perceived GTD and started off with GTD was just so much more easy for them to get started and then in a playful way, even with, with the fun videos as well. So for those of you who might think that, you know, this would be fun to help my colleagues learn GTD, reach out to, to us in the Nordics, uh, go to cruciallearning.com, um, to find your local partners wherever you are to see if you could become a certified in-house trainer. Yeah, that's— I promise you, it's a lot of fun.

Morten: It is. And it is for many of you who listen to this. I'm sure that you— I, or at least I know a lot of you guys that I met and girls that are thinking of, oh, one day maybe I can become a trainer. Now you can. And it's not very complicated either. It's fairly— No, it's not. No, it's fairly straightforward. And yeah, in the Nordic region. Yeah, if you are interested.

Lars: Exactly. Yeah. And just, and the other thing, just like you said, the purpose of this episode was really for you to reflect on your own practice, where you might be able to up your game in the near future or in 2023 or whenever you're listening to this. So we really hope that this episode was helpful in that sense. And if you notice something, it's if, you know, in 6 months that you improve something based on this episode, be sure to let us let us know, podcast@vitallearning.dk. We, we love to hear from you.

Morten: Yes, indeed. And, uh, now is the time for.

Lars: Taking us out, maybe. Now is indeed the time to wrap up this episode with a quick reminder to head on over to vitallearning.eu, have a look around at the website there, and find your way to the local country websites as well. You'll find all the different offerings relating to getting things done, but the other programs that we offer. Outside the Nordics, cruciallearning.com is the place to go to find your local partners. And as always, a quick reminder about the GTD Summer Camp 2023, June 17th to 18th. It's going to be great. Nicest people are going to be there. The weather will be beautiful. You'll look out over the waters and you'll be inspired. And yeah, well, have a look at gtdsommercamp.com, go over there and, uh, and sign up and, uh, we hope to see you there.

Morten: Yes, indeed. And if you enjoyed and liked what we've done now, if you're on YouTube, like and subscribe. Please subscribe because then you will be notified and hit that bell. If you are in any other, you know, you're listening at Spotify or Audible, Apple Podcasts, please consider giving us a rating if you've not already done so. It helps the visibility and helps people to learn GTD. So help us help others. And until next time, stay safe and stay productive. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Podcast. Getting Things.

Lars: Yes.