83. Listener questions: Delegation, waiting fors, project planning and more!

Transcript

Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.

Morten: Hi and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from Vital Learning. I am Morten Røvik, and I'm here as always with my good friend and colleague Lars Rothschild Henriksen. Privet, Lars.

Lars: Privet, Morten. Good to see you as always. And As always, good to be here with our listeners. We always start off with a quick reminder to remind you of the purpose of the podcast, which is to help you learn GTD or become even better GTDers. So we hope that today's episode supports you in that. If you are new to GTD, we always recommend you go back and listen to episodes 1 through 6 to get an introduction to the basics of GTD, the 5 steps. And today's episode number is 83. And today's episode is a listener questions episode.

Morten: Yes, it is. And we love getting questions and comments from you guys. Thank you so much for caring enough to send us an email. It warms our hearts. And a lot of you give us a lot of heartwarming, positive feedback. And of course, that motivates us to continue. So please keep them coming. So, but Lars, will you, we have, how many did we decide on questions today?

Lars: We picked up 2 emails, one that actually goes way back to June. That's the first one. And it has 3 questions in there. So it says, good morning, guys. This is from Ivan in the US. And he says, I'm in the midst of my weekly review and I have a few questions that popped into my head based on listening to your podcast. I really enjoy the podcast and find that it's not just your explanation of the GTD methodology that is so helpful, but your real-world examples and best practices that I benefit from. Thanks for that. And great to hear. And hopefully the last episode, episode 82 that came out was helpful in that regard as well. He goes on to say, I have a few questions that are very specific to my role that are always a challenge. So to give you the context, he's the president and CEO of a mid-sized family business in New York. They have about 45 employees and he's always preaching GTD, probably to the point that they are sick of hearing about it. I think many of the listeners can probably relate. Yeah, exactly. Just recently I was coaching my team on how I stay focused with so many different areas of focus and responsibility and actually shared the list of those items with my team. It's a lot. Yes, we can recognize that one as well. Because my responsibilities are so wide and I manage so many people, I have a few questions. Of course, there are layers of support underneath me in terms of management, but ultimately I am responsible for everything. Now the first question is, I have to delegate a lot, or I'm very often the last step in a process, so my waiting for list grows quite long. Sometimes things sit on the waiting for list for a lengthy period of time, and that is intentional. Do you have any strategies or suggestions, or is it best to break up the waiting for list to help that? Um, he says, I review it on a daily basis to ensure things are not sitting idle. 25% of it '75% does not.' What would you say.

Morten: Morten? No, I see, as you read it, my mind goes to what David would say, 'You need to see what you need to see when you need to see it.' And how you slice and dice this is, of course, very much up to you as a a GTDer. And what I find is, you know, one of the best practices I've found when I coach clients is to make as many lists as you need to, to only see the things you need to see, to see when you need to see it, as David would say. Go back to that. But did I say something really stupid?

Lars: No, no, no, no. I just had to turn my mind a bit to see how that Yeah, I got it.

Morten: Okay. So, so my, my idea is that when you, when you are trying to slice and dice, put things where they need to go so that you can see what you need to see is maybe he needs to have, you know, as two separate waiting for lists, you know, separate, like one who needs attention for the next 1 to 2 weeks. And the other is more like, you can see it on your weekly review and decide if something starts, you know, burning, uh, or start getting, um, um, what would you call that? Starting getting urgent. So, um, what is your take on this, Lars?

Lars: Yeah. Um, no, it's a good, good, good question. Um, one thing I'm wondering, he doesn't specify in the email. I'm wondering if he uses dates on his waiting for list because he doesn't, he should. Yeah. That maybe, maybe that would be a starting point because, um, and, and if he is already using dates, if he's not, then certainly that would be a way to only highlight, you know, let them, them surface when they show up. I believe in the subsequent question he mentions, let me just quickly double check. Now he does not specify specifically which tool he is using, but I'm sure it would be helpful to have these dates on there to then let them surface when he needs to see them. So you don't have to keep making that same kind of decisions all the time. The other thing that came to mind was, yes, you are responsible. Ultimately in the end. But I'm wondering if there is an opportunity to, to be more clear on, on areas of focus and the responsibility level. So if we could maybe raise it up to there and actually let some more people, you know, manage these on, on their own, and maybe there would be less of a need to follow up. You know, it's, it's hard to say, obviously, without having the full context and being able to dive a bit deeper. But I'm just wondering whether there is, you know, too, too much follow-up going on. That could also be the case.

Morten: It could be, you know, the delegated projects list or delegated desired outcomes list could be helpful if you delegate and then have that reminder there or on Agenda for lists. So when you talk to people on a regular basis that you delegate to, that you can follow them up. And just to give you a brief comment on using dates, what we mean with using dates is you should not make a due date for yourself or something like that so that it pops up on your calendar or yells at you. What we are talking about is just make a soft due date. For instance, I would start a waiting for with the date I want to follow up. So 2023-02-01, 1st February 2023, I want to follow this up. And then write who am I waiting for and on what.. And if there is an email attached, I will then paste that in so I can see what was this all about again when I need to follow it up. And the reason for using what I call soft due dates in that way is that you can then, if you sort your lists alphabetically, you can see which one scores the highest. Meaning that the lowest dates come first and the highest dates come last. So it sorts itself beautifully. And I'm sure you would agree that's.

Lars: A good idea, Lars. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I still attach dates, but that would then be what you would refer to now as soft dates. So they would then show up for me and I was saying, you know, now I'm just going to give them until next week. I haven't heard from Claire regarding the coaching session that we were going to plan earlier this year. But I don't need to follow up on January 2nd. That might be a bit early in the year to follow up on that one. So I pushed that forward. That's just an example from my.

Morten: List recently. So, so our answer to his question would be it depends on what kind of system you're using and how you're using it. But if you delegate things to people, yeah, and as Lars said, pick this up to the areas of focus level where you try to look at you and your team. Is there things that I can delegate to people? And you know, the hallmark of a good leader is that you're good at delegating. Give your team responsibilities and instead of following them up tightly, if they don't need to, just follow them up when things start to burn or when you understand I should follow this up or something is going to.

Lars: Go wrong. So yeah. Yeah, I think back to that. And again, we don't have any idea of what the delegation strategies are and whether you could delegate maybe on a higher level, whether it's specific next actions on a project level. Areas of focus, maybe even specific goals that you just hand off and then you don't have to keep waiting for specifically on them.

Morten: Yeah. And as a little addition to this is that when you delegate something to someone, don't delegate next actions, delegate desired outcomes. If you delegate next actions, you are going to look at this person as your secretary. And if this person is your secretary or a personal assistant, Fine, that's good. But if you delegate to someone who is responsible for something, you should delegate a desired outcome. I think that is a very good idea.

Lars: Yeah, certainly something to reflect on in your GTD practice, and especially with the size of the company that he's referring to also. Second question, he says, on your last podcast. Now, this dates back to the summer of last year. Those of you who have a really good memory might remember what it's about. But he reminds us that we were discussing planning only the next action on a project unless you really need to think through the entire project to clear it from your mind. I have always done the opposite, planning out as much as I can of the project as I can. So when I am at the end of the road in terms of what I can plan, I create a bookmark, next action of plan out next steps to accomplish XXX. And I tag it with OmniFocus, my tool of choice. This reminds me I am done with what I planned and need to continue further. So any thoughts on this? Does that mean my projects are.

Morten: Too elaborate? Good question. I'm not, I'm not certain I fully understand his question.

Lars: Well, if I were to paraphrase, and I don't know if I, if I caught the essence of it, I think we, we might have been discussing, so Some people will tend to overplan and they will be, you know, really helped by focusing on the clarify step and focusing on the next action. So instead of hanging out and, and I see them in seminars relatively frequently, I'm sure you do as well, but they will, but what about all the other next actions, you know, and try to do that on every single project will be overkill. So I'm guessing that's where this, this came from that we might have been talking about that. Most projects will likely suffice with just having the desired outcome and the single next action to move it forward. But some projects of course require more thinking. So it's hard to say, you know, with the projects that are on his plate. So if he is, you know, if I just scroll back and say he's the COO, right? So I'm guessing there is for many of his projects, probably a certain relatively high level of complexity. So in his case, he might need to, I would suggest he might need to do more thinking and planning about a specific project because there would be more complexity involved. But I'm guessing we refer to not trying to overplan, not trying to use the natural planning model on getting your tires changed on your car. That would probably be a bit too much, right? I'm guessing that's what we would.

Morten: Say, right? No, I'm reminded you have some certain projects that A lot of your projects, most of them I would say, as a normal human being, you can handle them directly in your Getting Things Done system. But some projects are complex and they need to involve different resources. You need to allocate them. Then a Gantt chart might be helpful. That's how I roll. Exactly. That's how Lars rolls. So, but some, when you come to that level, then of course you will flush out everything you can and then resource allocate and inform people that I will be using you or this resource this time, this time in time. And this is of course a way to a good way to handle your projects. But then you are more in the project planning, execution, and follow-up part of your— maybe you will set aside an hour in your calendar to just do that, follow up that project. But on a regular basis, when you have small and big projects, it is for— at least this is my experience— for most people, it's enough just to identify what's my desired outcome as far as I can see it,— and then specify one next action that's on one of your context lists. And then if you have any further ideas or you can see the road coming, then plan as much as you feel you need to get it off your mind. And this, this is key. How can you plan your projects so you can get them off your mind and into your system? That's what GTD is all about. Get it out of your head. And if you can do that and the project silently lands somewhere where you can feel comfortable it's handled well, you will be in a good shape.

Lars: Any comments, Lars? No, that, that makes perfect sense. And I, I like the, the image that just came up when you said that the project silently landed somewhere. It felt like something was floating and just, you know, landed on the surface of the table and everything was nice and calm. I like that analogy for a good, well-thought-out project.

Morten: Yes, indeed. And this is the core idea of Getting Things Done, is getting things out of your head, you know, clarify what it means to you, organize them into a system, lists and calendar, and then reflect and review your commitments on a regular basis, and then engage and do the things you decided to.

Lars: Do something about. Yeah.

Morten: Which is 5 steps just to get things off your mind. If it is off your mind and in your system, your mind feels good, you're in the right place. If not, experiment.

Lars: Try something different. Yeah. All right. So third question from Ivan was, this probably could be a podcast episode on its own, but any best practice on promoting and convincing others to use GTD? I give a pocket Sorry, I give a copy of the book to anyone promoted or hired to my management or business development teams, as I think they benefit the most from GTD, but it doesn't work unless they buy into the methodology. And I've yet to figure out how to cross that bridge.

Morten: And if anyone got really the final.

Lars: Answer to that question, please tell us. Yeah. Email podcast@vitallearning.dk. I think we'll reach us.

Morten: Thank you. Yes. No, but my first inclination is to talk about what— if you ask David this question, I know he will answer something like, be an example. Don't try and convince people because they will not follow you unless they feel that there is something in it for them. And I have many examples from my, you know, when I talk to people, coach people, One example is that there was a person who came to my seminar who I talked to in one of the breaks, and he told me that, well, he had— I asked him, why are you here? What compelled you to come to the seminar? And he said, well, I have a colleague, and she was constantly late for meetings. She was not organized. She was stressed. She was, you know, she felt, you know, he could see that she was not in a good place. And suddenly, in a matter of a couple of weeks, she changed. She was on time in meetings, she was prepared, and she was, you know, on top of things. And he asked her what happened, and she said, I went to the seminar. And he told us in the break there that I decided, and I want that, I, I need this. So, so that's how, how he, he came there. So be, be an example more. I don't know, any anecdotes from that.

Lars: In your world, Lars? No, I, I completely agree, and I would say the same thing. So what we always say, you know, lead by example, just to, you know, when they, when they see that person that is, you know, have their things under control, relaxed, you know, the productive experience then that's the best way to lead people to GTD. And then I would say, you know, really the seminars, the coaching. So I don't want to toot our own horns or whatever it's called, but it really is a good way. Right now I'm working with the new seminar materials and it's so much fun. It's such an easy way to learn GTD now. Not that it was difficult before, but the way that it's structured now in the new seminar, the book is great. It covers a lot of ground, a lot of material in there for you, you know, using GTD as your whole life management system. But if you, you know, just to get that taste of GTD, just to learn and just feel what it's like to get to inbox zero and have those good lists and, you know, leave work on time and actually don't think about work when you leave the office. That is so much more easy now with the seminars that are out there. Maybe for a management team, coaching would be the better approach. That would obviously be a conversation to have with the local partners. With, um, with the right people in the US, depending on whether it's coaching or seminars. But really, the seminars now are just— it makes GTD so relatable, so easily approachable, and it's, you know, just boiled down to really give people a good start. So, um, the book is great, obviously, but if you want to give them that easy approach and learn GTD well, um, the seminars are, I have to say, really, really good. Again, sorry for tooting our own horn, but that really is how I think about it.

Morten: Yeah, I do agree with you. Especially with the new seminars, it's even better than before. And actually today we have, let's say, I want to be mindful, we don't to divulge information we are not allowed to, but we have a big, well-known medical company, worldwide medical company, who has— where one of the managers there has a team, big team, and he's now— he got coaching from me. He loves getting things done, and now he has a new team because he advanced to, you know, a higher role in the company. And now he wants his team to have the same tools as he has. And he has enlisted them to us to a seminar. And Espen, our managing director, is in Oslo at the moment and giving that seminar. And I think that is also, you know, to give a seminar is a good way of helping people. But if you're not in in that position doing that. Um, just be— lead by example. And if you have some people who has, you know, the— some of the things that Getting Things Done really does something with is it helps you alleviate stress. So if you, you have some people around you who has, you know, feel stress, if you people are worrying, Getting Things Done can help you with worrying or help you stop worry. Generally, overwhelm and all the mental depression you get if you have too much to do. Look for people who have that and slip them some information. Don't push them, but slip them information. Say that maybe this could help. Have a look. That's my two cents.

Lars: Anything to add? Last option, you know, there's this summer camp coming up, June 17th to 18th, 2023. If you happen to be in the neighborhood, drop by. Yeah. It might not be for people that are unfamiliar with or have no experience with GTD. Exactly. Just thought it might be an opportunity to sneak that in.

Morten: GTD summer camp. More. Yeah. Well, that's more for you who understands Getting Things Done than it is for the totally fresh person. So, yeah.

Lars: But I do agree.

Morten: It's not a GTD seminar. No. So since we are talking about the summer camp, can you tell us a little about where are we at and when is it and how many has.

Lars: Enlisted us so far? Yeah, those are all very good questions. I, you know, and there are answers to that. I haven't checked, to be honest. I think we are. I think— sorry, sorry, we just have to get Morten. You're okay. No. So we have, I think, about half the tickets are sold now for the early bird pricing. And I know multiple people are waiting to sign up as well. So if you are curious about going, then be sure to head on over to the gtdsommercamp.com. You'll be redirected to vitallearning.dk to the appropriate page where you can read more and sign up. Yeah, so that's the, that's the current status. We are meeting next week, in a week from today, to start planning even in more detail on what the program will be. And yeah, it's just, you know, from my perspective, it's just so nice to see the community supporting this. Again, this is a non-profit event, so it's really just for us all to, to hang out and, and have fun. And people are signing up, new people that have listened to the, to the podcast for such a long time and just, you know, want to meet up with other GTDers meet up with us and say hi, and, uh, and other people that are joining us as well, um, even from the US coming back again, uh, attended last year, will be back this year again. So just, um, so nice. Um, yeah, can't wait, will be a lot of fun.

Morten: All of you are most welcome and to hang out with us and hang out with other GTDers and to help yourself become a better GTDer. And I'm, you know, when we are, what I see is the most important thing is the social aspect that you will meet people you will like. I can guarantee you that. And it might be bonds that you, you know, friendships that you strike up that can be helpful for you. I know a lot of people who has gone to the summer camp who has been, you know, hooking up, becoming GTD weekly review buddies just to hang out and do their.

Lars: Weekly review together. A lot of fun.

Morten: We promise.

Lars: Yes, it is. All right. The other email that we wanted to pick up for this episode. So thank you, Ivan from the US. The other one was from Marco in Germany. He says, dear Morten, dear Lars, I would like to thank you for your podcast and all your energy and efforts. Thanks for listening, Marco. He says, I am not yet a GTDer, still struggling with many aspects such as the weekly review. Nonetheless, even the first step of capturing started to change my life to the better already. Having tried at first, first time at GCD, I failed, shocked by the multitude of tasks on my desk. I took a second attempt with physical paper notes and some months later drowning me in hundreds of sheets with no progress at all. On my third attempt, one year ago, I started with podcasts, just hearing, learning, getting motivated, and then gradually applying some practices. The one which helped me the most was and is your passionate work. I love your, in quotes, amateur style and attitude. You're so credible and likable, and that really makes you stick out and wait for the next episode, stick around and wait for the next episode. So please continue with your great content. Thank you so much. Also, he says, I'm hoping, speaking of the summer camp, I'm hoping to attend in 2024. Attending one is one of my life aims, but not yet for 2023. I want to be a practitioner prior to joining the community. Very much in relation to what we just spoke about. Last but not least, one practice that really helps me and gives me the reassurance of having everything captured on a daily basis. I delete my list of outgoing and incoming calls in addition to the voice messages. I delete the calls one by one, and with each delete, I ask myself whether there are any open loops to capture, adding to my calls list, waiting for list, and other next action This daily action gives me the comfort of being current, at least on phone calls and messages. In parentheses, inbox zero, still far out of reach. Thank you again for everything. All the best for the new year. May health and happiness always be with you. Stay safe and stay productive.

Morten: Kind regards from Marco. Well, thank you so much, Marco. And I, I read an email and I enjoyed it. And I just want to ask you, um, And just to you, Marco, and of course all the others there, but you, you have tasted, you have tasted what Getting Things Done can do for you when you look at your, you know, your, your calls and you're doing it exactly correct. You are looking at each call and ask, is there a next action there? Capture an open loop for this if there is, or if not, delete it. And that, and the, the good feelings that you have, imagine you have them constantly with everything in your life. There is no backlog of email, there is no backlog of messages anywhere, and everything is under control. If you think that would be beneficial for you, then just continue. And just for a little comment about the summer camp, you don't have to be a practitioner. You will become one if you come. You will be inspired, I think.

Lars: Lars, what do you think? Now I'm reminded, because I had a similar practice actually when I started off with my GTD practice, not in relation to calls. I don't get many calls, didn't get many calls, at least back then. But I had a practice. So, you know, this is back 15 years ago now. But I had a practice of checking my sent folder. So sent emails folder, just, you know, before heading out of the door, leaving the office, because that just gave me that nice sense of calm, just going through, not deleting them, but just running through and see, did I capture a waiting for? Do I need to capture? Waiting for on this one. If nothing else, it gave me like, whoa, I actually did a lot of work today, really nice, and headed off to the train and, you know, felt good about the day. And it was just a nice safety net for me. Yeah, exactly. Really just, you know, that trust in the system and knowing that things were captured. I had a follow-up whenever I needed to have a follow-up. So it was just a nice, nice way. So I was reminded about that when, when I read his, read his mail. And yeah. Yeah, it's a good feeling. So you got the calls to, that inbox to zero. And yeah, like you said, Morten, now.

Morten: Onto the next one. When you imagine this for the whole life, for everything, you feel good about absolutely everything in your life. Or, well, there are things you cannot feel good about. Some things in life, maybe not possible for you to do something with, but all the things you can get under control and get an overview over helps you feel good about about your work. And, um, yeah. And I like to stay safe and stay productive. I understand people are getting that tagline now.

Lars: That's good. Yeah, that one and the Privet, uh, I'm getting that more.

Morten: And more. So coaching clients starting with Privet. Yes, exactly. Okay. So, and Privet is, for those of you who don't know, Ukrainian for hello or hi. So in support of what we think about the war in Ukraine, we use that. Not to get political, but okay, here we go. Okay, anything else we need to touch upon, Loris, that you have noted yourself?

Lars: I don't think so. Just a big thanks to, to Ivan, thanks to Marco, thanks to all, you know, the rest of you that are sending in your questions. Really appreciate them. We, we love having them. It's such a it makes for fun episodes. You know, we like to share our experiences. We like to interview interesting people and then getting your questions is really just a nice way to mix it all up and get some new perspectives and angles and keep them coming.

Morten: Podcast@Lightandlearning.Dk, I think, will reach our inboxes. Indeed. And if you want to help us, please do. If you have had any— and Lars will talk about this later on, of course, because when he says, can you take us out, he will say this, but just a reminder. Reminded that you help us. If you like, you have— if you, if this podcast helps you to, to learn Getting Things Done, please help us spread the message by giving a review in whatever podcast player you have. If that has a review, give it a, you know, 5-star rating if you think that's correct. And if you make a little comment on why is this relevant, if that's possible in your podcast player of, of choice, that helps people the discoverability of it, and it helps people find it. And if you want to inspire your colleagues, maybe you should send them episode number 1, which is what's in it for you with Getting Things Done learning.

Lars: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, good, good, good idea.

Morten: Good idea. Okay, Lars, now will you.

Lars: Take us out? Yes, just following up on that. It's fun to see. I think we mentioned it last time that you signed us up for this that we get noticed on different charts. And it's really fun to see how, how we end up on the education charts in different countries. So that's all thanks to those of you who give that, that rating. The other thing we like to mention, a few other things as we wrap up, a quick reminder to head on over to vitallearning.eu, learn more about the different offerings, different GTD seminars, the different offerings that we have now with Crucial Conversations, etc. So be sure to head on over there. If you're outside the Nordics, cruciallearning.com is is the place to go to find your local partners. And the last URL to keep in mind, gtdsummercamp.com. Still the early bird tickets available. So be sure to head on over there to sign up as well. If you have the opportunity to join.

Morten: Us there, we'd love to see you. We would indeed. And with those beautiful words from Loris, I will end as always by saying stay safe, And stay productive.

Lars: Bye-bye, everyone. Bye, everyone. Let's.

Morten: Go, go, go. Hi and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from Vital Learning. I am Morten Røvik, and as always, I'm here with my good friend and good friend Lars.

Lars: Okay, blooper.