64. Simplify Your GTD

Transcript

Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.

Morten: Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from GTD Nordic. I'm Morten Røvik, and I'm here with my good friend and colleague Lars Rothschild Henriksen. G'day, Lars.

Lars: Hi, Morten. Good as always to see you and looking forward to recording another episode for our listeners and viewers. The purpose of this podcast is to help you learn GTD or become even better GTDers. So we hope that this episode also supports you in that. If it does, we We always love to hear from you. And if you're new to GTD, we recommend you go back and listen to episodes 1 through 6 to get an introduction to the basics of Getting Things Done. This is episode number 63 of this podcast series. And today we'll be talking about a critical part of doing GTD.

Morten: Yeah, we call this Simplify Your GTD as a tagline to get you to listen to this because it's very important that you actually don't overcomplicate GTD, both your own practice and the system. And that is our topic for today. So before we started, Lars, you talked about some of your coaching clients that have had some specific challenges with their GTD system specifically. And but, you know, the system becomes what it becomes after you do your GTD with it. So, so maybe that's a good place to start.

Lars: And that's really where this topic came from. So as always, we brainstorm what we'd like to talk about in these episodes. And what was top of mind for me was that I had over the last few days have been working with different coaching clients and this sort of seemed to be a common theme, not necessarily because they were all seasoned GTDers and had overcomplicated their systems at all, but just in building a system that is appropriate for the person. I think that is where we are aiming with this episode, or at least that's the starting point. Let's see where we go. But no, I had a, you know, a new GTDer, a person new to GTD, where we were setting her up with a GTD system and kept it pretty vanilla GTD, pretty straightforward, and actually used a relatively small number of lists to keep it as straightforward as possible to, to work with, get into the habit. And then over time, I'm sure that she will go and adapt that system to be more reflective of the complexity of her life and work. So that was really the starting point there. And it was good to just set her up with a straightforward system that was easy to use, easy to move forward with right away with the limited experience that she had with GCD at that time. And then later, earlier this week, actually, I worked with two different coaching clients as well, virtual coaching sessions on the same day. And in both cases, the topic revolved around simplifying and working with the right number of lists. So having the right number of next actions list, for example, for example, was a key topic in both and having an appropriate place to park the different things that they need to have in their system. And one of the outcomes was to take one of their lists and really split it up into two more smaller lists that was easier for them to work with. So I thought this was a good starting point and a good reminder to all of the seasoned GTDers out there that there may be a— this might be a good time to actually pause and reflect on their own lists, their own practice, and see how that might be be simplified.

Morten: Indeed, indeed. Um, just to— let's— I suggest we just take a step back first and then talk, um, about what, what is a well-functioning— what's the, what's the nature of a well-functioning GTD system? So what would your answer to that question be?

Lars: Well, my starting point would be that it would be as easy as possible to work on the right things at the right time, that it's easy to open up your systems, you're attracted to the list. It's easy to open up, find the right things, move forward on them. That's, I think, the starting point for me. I don't know, what would you say?

Morten: I would say some of the— I've used some of the exact same words, but I think one of the keys that you might want to focus on when you work on your list is the— does the list attract you or repel you? So are you attracted to them or are you repelled? And if you feel that, oh no, I don't want to look at my list, I don't feel good about them, that's a very high likelihood that you're not appropriately engaged with them or you put the wrong things on them or you've not done, you know, your clarify and organize in a good manner. But even if you do your GTD well, the GTD practice, when it comes to, you know, clarifying, organized, and reviewing your list, it is possible to overcommit oneself so that you get too much on your list and that will make you repel your lists. You don't want to— you're not attracted to them. So where would you like to start unravel this subject?

Lars: Well, I thought to zoom in as much as possible and then zoom out from there. So zooming all the way in would be to review the calendar and next actions list and what's on those lists, maybe as a starting point, not even the lists themselves, but actually what do you have on those lists? Because I, as an example, again, from coaching, and I do catch myself sometimes doing this as well, is that I'll write out a next action. For example, on that list and then not admit to myself that we have a project here. So I will write that and I'll often— it's often easy for me to catch on those lists, and I've seen this on other people's lists as well, that you will sit there and then you have the next action and then you might add a dash and then just a few next actions after that, or some, some kind of finish line that you describe, or in the notes field you will add a lot of detail in there, which typically is an example of some that probably should be converted to a project. But really overall, taking that step back and looking at those lists, are they all next actions? Are they the right next actions? Has something changed that you need to do something differently? Should we take some things again as an example from a recent coaching, took some things from an agenda list that were sort of stale on that list and really didn't get to them. Actually, the next action was really more to walk over there and have a quick chat next time at the office, or actually this should be a call instead so we can move forward on these these things. So otherwise they would be staying on those lists. So really reflecting on the contents of those actions lists and make sure that they are easy to work with. I think that's a good reflection to do to make sure that the system is as easy to use as possible and the right level of simplicity for you.

Morten: And one of the things that I see when in coaching is that when you are, you know, more or less seasoned GTDer, you have, you've been doing this for a while. But you've not visited your higher horizons where you kind of, you know, you take a step back and ask yourself, what's important in my life? What's the purpose of my life? What do I want my life to look like? What's my vision for my life? What's my perceived purpose? And then maybe you will find that, okay, I want to make sure that I take care of me, that I have good days at work. You're not, you know, I want to be on top of my work. I don't want to be buried in work. If those reflections come, then they will force you to simplify your system. And I'm talking about the sheer volume that you can commit to when you are fresh with GTD and get the 5 steps. It's kind of like you get into that Ferrari and it really moves fast. And when it really moves fast, it's very, you know, it's scary, but it's also fun because, you know, it's, you understand that you produce a lot more than before, and it's at the same time, it's a thrilling experience. But at some point, you understand that now I'm moving a little too much onto my, you know, you get a little too much volume in your next actions lists. And that's where you have to scale back and simplify what's on the lists. And one of the things we've been discussing before is Something that's not— I would say that it's not a— I think it is in the books of David, but it's not professed very clearly in the seminars and some of the material, but the projects on hold lists, as in between your projects lists and someday maybe list. It's a good place to park things. We talked about the combine harvester, my analogy of if you have a too wide cutting blade for your combine harvester, you will move very slowly on too many projects and you will not finish any projects. And you will feel— so just make the cutter narrower so that you move faster and finish projects. Finishing projects is important. Some of the projects are long-toothed in that manner that it will take a long time because it's not only you finishing them off. You need to— your other people are involved, but some projects you are responsible for. And when you finish them off your list, it feels good as well. You are then, you are more attracted to your lists again. So simplifying by moving, if you understand I have overcommitted myself and moving them on hold, and then if necessary, necessary and renegotiate that commitment with someone. Said, okay, now I have to renegotiate this commitment with you because I need to finish some of the other projects first. It's not forgotten, but I will not work on this the next 3 weeks, just for your information.

Lars: That's a great, great point to make. And that really also— I love how that, you know, all the different horizons of focus in GTD, how they play together. So even though you zoom now all the way out, coming back all the way down again to the next actions list will then reflect on what you would find even higher up in those horizons of focus. And, you know, it all is important to make sure that you have the right things on your list.

Morten: So I will give you the opportunity to zoom in again on something.

Lars: Yeah, no, but it's a good point to make that we really— these all play together and what's on those lists can really change up a lot. I have a good friend and coaching client as well that I work with where he's an entrepreneur, has multiple businesses that he runs. And when we worked together a few years back, he sold off some things, closed down some things, and he just did it recently again following a talk that we had that there's just too many things on his list and wanted to focus on the things that actually made sense for him, was fun to do, things that made money for him. So it really is a good point to make. But yeah, if we zoom back in and then maybe zoom out just a slight bit to a next actions list level. So those— now we talked about the contents of the list, but do you actually have the right lists? And I think that's, you know, one of the things that really changed over time and that you know, for any seasoned GTDer that really works the system, that will always have a part of their attention to make sure that you have the right lists. So not only are the contents of the lists attracting you, but are those lists easy to navigate? Do they reflect the system that you would like to have to make sure that it's easy for you to, to dive into the right things? So do you have the right lists? Are some maybe not in use anymore? That's an easy one for me to pick out. And, you know, I don't see any number on that list, so I can easily go in there and maybe remove that. Added if I need it at some point again. So that was the first thing. And then are there too many things on those lists? Because I saw that recently in coaching as well, that, you know, reflecting on, so why are there so many things on there? And again, like you said earlier, sometimes there will be busy periods and maybe there are many things that we need to have active on those lists right now. But if not, do you have the right lists? Are they appropriate for you to work with? Can we split up those lists to make more sense for you? And typically, I don't know what your experience is, Martin, but my experience is that it's typically relatively easy to actually, once you take that perspective, to look at your list, to walk through and see if there are any sort of natural groupings in those lists. So let's say an example from a recent coaching, virtual coaching session for me was that we had the computer list.. And the computer list is probably the most common one these days to have a lot of things on those lists. So, so he had in his case 20-something on that list. And for him, that was too many. Again, this number differs from person to person. I can certainly relate. I don't want to see too many things on that single list either. It's hard for me to, to navigate. So we looked at that list and looked through. So what's on that list? And I don't think I said much. I just asked, so are there any sort of natural groupings? And it just You know, it took him 2 seconds to see, you know what, those, those 5 are actually related to this piece of software. So when I'm logged in there, I might as well, you know, have that list to work from. So an easy, an easy way for him to just split that list, and then the computer-software name, move some things over to that list. And then, okay, so now we're down below 20. And then we did another round, right? That's actually, you know, that makes sense for me to move them there. And then we were down to less than 10 on all of his lists. That for him, that was a good number to aim for, that it didn't— it wasn't overwhelming for him to look at.

Morten: One of the things I've also found, and you know, that you can make if you're on PC and you want to split that up a little, is to, as you mentioned, go for, you know, program-specific lists, like @PowerPoint or @this program, you know. But also another way to look at this is that if you have let's say you have routines you have to maintain, you have some reporting or some, I don't know, travel expense you have to do that you really need time to do and that is rhythmical and you can't avoid it. Why wouldn't you look at putting that in the calendar? So, you can get it off your lists and then if you then find you will have to do some more reporting or you want to, you know, there's some things fills up, you can put that in the comments field of the calendar appointment with yourself. And that is also a way that, you know, you can beat procrastination. I've, you know, I talked before that I'm getting more and more into my calendar because it is in the calendar increases the likelihood that I will not procrastinate. But this is a slippery slope. If your calendar is full, don't try to make it even fuller. You have to have some air in the calendar. But if you see that there are some things that you prefer not to do because you don't like these things, but you have to do them, then that might be a good place to put them, you know, and put them in the calendar. A good reason to put them in the calendar.. Yeah, and that will also then, you know, simplify your list, but also simplify your engagement with them when you get to the engage step.

Lars: So yeah, exactly. Now, so those lists, and obviously those are lists that you would work on on a daily basis. So there's probably value in investing some effort in having the right list for you. So just makes work so much easier when you sit down to work, to be honest.

Morten: Yeah. And one thing that, that strikes me now as, um, something we might mention, because there is a lot of people that I meet that are, you know, looking at GTD from the more traditional project management perspective, where— and with that I mean that they when they plan a project, they want to have as many Next Actions they can regarding that project. And that is what we call— there's a reason why we call it a Next Action and not all the Next Actions or, you know, all the possible next steps. It's because of when you put that on a— let's say that you put something on a PC list that's regarding one project, Project 1, and then you have 4 or 5 Next actions for that same project on the PC list, then you have to choose which one is most important right now. And not doing that helps you to pick. You must make that decision in advance when you do your clarifying and organizing. What is the first thing I need to get done here? And if you feel like, oh, I need all 5 of them done, then set aside some time to do that. Put it in the calendar and then just tick them off as you go through for if you need more speed. But if you— because I see that, and that, you know, that the people are looking at their lists and they get overwhelmed, and I go, no, sure luck, you put a lot of stuff there that doesn't belong there. Because, and this is where Getting Things Done differs from a lot of other potential things you might want to engage in when it comes to managing your attention is that Getting Things Done tells you that there is a— you should clarify and organize in advance to make it easier when you engage. So you don't have to think, you just have to choose. You don't have to decide, you just choose from your menu. And imagine that you're— when you are in your— you have some free time, you look in your calendar, I don't have any appointment for the next half hour, one hour, what do I need to do? Then you can choose from the menu on the— on the— your restaurant menu card you created before. What makes most sense right now to engage with? And you don't have to decide, you have to choose.

Lars: Does that make sense? Absolutely. And I think that's one of the things that may be hard to grasp when you first come across GTD, the difference in thinking. At least that wasn't evident to me when I, when I came across this and really the value that you then find when you have these very clear lists that you can then work from. It really is a big difference in how you think, how much energy your brain needs to actually engage and move.

Morten: Forward on those things. I remember very clearly one of the first times I heard this expression. It was by Todd Brown, our friend and colleague in the UK. He said something during a seminar I attended with him. I, when I clarify and organize, I'm being kind to the future me. I make it easy for the future me to choose what to do. Because I've done the deciding upfront. And to clarify, step number 2 and 3 of the Getting Things Done methodology is exactly that, deciding what you should do something about, what not, and then be very specific on how you will engage with this. How would you, how would I see you do the next action? Is that the next action where you have everything you need? And if that's in your system and not just one per project, it's so much easier to move forward on things. And, you know, and, and just simplifying, but just put one next actions per project on your, on your context lists. That makes a huge difference for someone.

Lars: Yeah, absolutely. And this actually ties nicely into some feedback that we got from one of our listeners as well. Zeke, I think his name was. I didn't get a last name from his email. I also don't know where you're listening from, Zeke, but, but this ties in nicely with a former listener question episode that we had where we discussed someone having a lot of projects on their lists and perhaps breaking them down. And this also then again comes back to what you mentioned before, this sort of in-between stage with projects that are active and they someday maybe that are on hold or that are paused, and then introducing the on-hold stage in between those. So maybe that can then help in some kind of some complex projects that you may be.

Morten: Working on. I was thinking that if we, I don't know if you're ready for that, but let's Let's try to— I was thinking if you are a seasoned GTDer, then you have different challenges than if you are a beginning GTDer. So I wanted to, if you are okay with that, let's look at how would you recommend someone who's just started with GTD, how would you recommend they start with their system so it's simple to use? And, you know, they don't need to simplify it, but they need to keep it simple, establish it simple. What would your recommendations be, Lars?

Lars: Well, I would always start off the way we did, again, depending on the person, because the starting point is typically a simplified system that would be easy to then work with. But it does depend on the person that you work with. So actually, the people in mind that inspired the episode, they are actually coming from very different places. So one is a super organized person already, and it's just naturally working with this organization step and having the right lists and having everything set up in a very structured way. And that works best for him. Whereas opposed to the other person that I worked with, where we kept it more simple, started off with the standard list that we know from the GTD book. Look at the organized chapter. We have these 10, I think, standard lists that you can, can set up in your system at computer at home. At office, calls, waiting for, agenda, etc., on that list and starting off with those. And then as you progress with GTD and you start to see maybe those lists are coming up, becoming a bit bigger, or for whatever reason that you see that they're not attractive, you're not attracted to those lists, then I would.

Morten: Start to, to adapt them. Exactly. I would say more or less exactly the same thing. So, but you know, Getting Things Done, your lists should be as simple as possible and as complex as it is necessary for maintaining an overview of your life and commitments. And for those, those of you who have attended the Level 2 seminar, you understand that you don't, as a Level 1 participant on one of our seminars, you understand you don't have a complete overview of all your commitments. And that's where some of the magic of Getting Things Done is that if you are taking the step up, and this you don't have to go to a seminar, but to step up is to really capture all your projects, not just the ones who are most evident for you, but all, all your projects at home and at work. And when you do that and really get that full overview and at the same time look at your areas of focus and accountability, which is, you know, a step up from projects, it makes it a lot easier for you to see if I have overcommitted myself. You know, do I have actually too much to do? Do I have too many areas of responsibility that I need to maintain to feel good about my work? And if a lot of the people that we meet when we coach and when we train are overcommitted They are people with a conscience. They would like to, and if you're then a time optimist and perfectionist on the top, you're very typical. So if you're listening to this, welcome to the club. But this is so, so important for all, you know, everyone who wants to learn GTD to keep it simple, but as complex as it needs to be to capture your life because There might be— if you feel that, oh, my life is— sorry, my lists are not attractive to me because maybe you say I have too much on them, then you need to take a step up the horizons of focus ladder to do your areas of focus and responsibility and ask yourself, am I committed to the right things here? Or do I have physically too much to do? And that could be a way to simplify your system, then take a dialogue with your your superior and tell him or she, look at all the things that I believe I am committed to do. There is not enough time in the, in the day to do this. How can I simplify my areas of focus? You know, instead, can I— do you think I can delegate to someone? If so, who? Or is there something that you would say that I don't need to do, or I could, you know, put on pause for 6 months, or just to give yourself the breathing room. Because getting things done is a lot about reflection. You have to reflect more on what do I engage with, that is saying no when you need to say no, and yes when you really understand I have to say yes to this. But you know, you can't— it's not an easy job to simplify your system, but it is necessary to do it every now and then. I've done a simplifying of my system maybe 3 weeks ago where I really went through my, you know, I took the machete with me into my list system and started cutting and rearranging. And you know that when you do that with a little hard hand with a lot of, you know, your higher reasons with you inside, it's a lot easier. To cut, and with good conscience saying that, no, this is not in my— this is not— I'm— this is either— either this is not on my areas of focus anymore, or this project has had value before but now it's gone stale. Let's cut that and renegotiate that. And just doing that cleaning up, you know, I think David says all the time, isn't it, when, when When you don't know what to do, clean up.

Lars: And yeah, that's such good advice. I come across that frequently when it's just like, I don't know, I'm not sure. Let's clean up. Let's clean up. It will be evident in just a moment.

Morten: Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then, you know, that just clean up your system, clean out your emails. You know, just doing that makes you feel better. And getting things done is I don't know if that comes to a— for the seasoned GTDers who's, you know, got the, the reasons why we're doing this, but for those of you who are fresh to GTD, GTD is helping you feel good about the things you decide to say yes and say no to, and it makes you feel good, more better about your life and, and your decisions. So simplifying, if you don't feel good.

Lars: It'S a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. No, and just building on what you said when it comes to the areas of focus. So the exercise that you just did, that is on my list to do because I have too many things on my list right now. So that is one thing, then one area that I need to zoom out a bit on and reflect on again. And those areas of focus are just, you know, they really added value to my system when I finally had them built as also as part of a Level 2 seminar. And really, you know, what I'll be looking forward to, at least to really look on my own list, is to look at do they have the right amount of detail? Is there enough detail for me in there? Or maybe there is too much detail somewhere, somewhere that I want to have some things other places. Or like you said, should something be added or cut off? Like I mentioned, you know, the client that recently sold off a business, So that was sort of an area of focus for him to cut that off and get that out of his list. And exactly what you said, some of them you can make your own decisions about and some of them will need a discussion with someone else to reflect on whether they can be delegated to someone else. Can we cut them off? Can we park a reminder and then in 6 months maybe reactivate it? But right now it's just adding too much to the list below. And I think that sort of brings us to the, to the, the list in between. So we talked about contents of the list, we talked about the next actions list, and now we went to Horizon's, uh, the areas of focus. Um, we didn't yet touch on the projects list, or at least not in, in detail. And I always find this list so interesting, and it's something that I'm also working on in my system to maybe see if I can make a better list. And, you know, if we, if we take a step back and again focus on the people that might be new to GTD, one long list is one place to start, one simple list of projects to give you that overview. But again, those of you who have worked more with GTD might have found value in grouping that list. So in sort of a similar fashion to what we talked about, or I mentioned before, with the computer list, maybe a starting point could be to have one list for personal projects, one list for professional projects, or even the, by the areas of focus. That is a way to group your projects that we often see. I have that in my system today. One of the things that I'm playing around with is whether I actually need this level of detail right now, because I think it might be valuable for me actually to simplify that list, get a better, get a better overview with.

Morten: Just a straightforward forward work list. And you know that the— well, first and foremost, I would suggest that, you know, okay, a straightforward projects list when, you know, everything in one bucket is possible. I would recommend people to, you know, to take out your personal projects and put them on the list straight away, just because you don't need to see them when you see your work It's like you can't cut the grass when you're in the office unless you have a remote-controlled robot cutter or mower. But to see your personal projects mixed in, you know, paint the cottage, may.

Lars: Not.

Morten: Be the— should not reside beside the project of acquiring the new company. So, so, um, such as split them up would be of course something I would recommend also. And as you said, that you can group them by areas of focus, and a lot of people do that. And, um, for instance, it might be that some of you who are listening are consultants. Hello, consultants, I'm talking to you. Maybe you want to group them by client. And then by project. So if you're Client A, Client B, Client C, that would be 3 natural lists for your projects that might be under your work-related lists, or it could be just Work Client A, Work Client B, and just a grouping of yours in your system. And the reason we are talking about, you know, putting this on different lists is because you you can focus on just one thing if you want to. So, for instance, you look at the Client A lists, you can see all the projects related to Client A, and then that is the focus for you. So, you make sure that you don't need to think about Client B when you look at Client A. It's a way to, for those of you who are high associative, You are very easily distracted. You don't need to see something you don't need to see right now because you will start thinking about that and your brain will be pulled into that client B when you look at client A. So just a way of grouping it naturally so that you don't distract yourself as well.

Lars: And one added value to that in having those areas of focus groups is also depending on the list manager of your choice wherever you are set up. One thing that works well for me is that I have a place to place my next actions that are not related to a project but related to an area of focus and having a good place to place them. Again, if that sort of organization makes sense for you, then it's nice to have a place where they go. So one area for me is finance-related things. So there are some activities in there for me not related to a project but I need to send that invoice. In that case for me, it's nice to perhaps have a separate project or.

Morten: A group to place that. Like single actions that you need to do related to, to area of focus.

Lars: Yes, yeah, exactly.

Morten: Yeah, exactly. Well, and that will be, you know, simplifying your lists if you did that. And just coming back to when you start building your list, be careful to, you know, one of the things that It's very easy to do when you're fresh with GTDs that you will use a template you find online somewhere where some person gave you some examples. You find a YouTube video somewhere. One of the ways that you can simplify lists is also to make sure that the way you organize the list is actually by the book. There are many people unfortunately out there who suggest something that's not GTD and they call it GTD, which is not good for you as a human being because you will confuse yourself. So make sure that when you look at your— the suggested lists out there, make sure it's from, you know, David Allen-related sources so that you can be sure that what you look at is the pure thing. And then when you build your list, make sure that you don't build the lists when you don't have content on it. So make sure that when you build your list, only build it by need. One of the things I see a lot of people do is that they make a lot of next actions lists that they never will use. So instead of building them, just don't make them, just don't put them there, and you just put them when the need arises. So if you, you know, never do something around the house, maybe you don't need it at home. I'm sure your spouse will be not.

Lars: Very happy with you after a while. I might not be an official recommendation.

Morten: Well, if you have a lot of money, you can buy that service for clean or I don't know, or to, for, you know, but to have the appropriate next actions lists and not too many, but just what you need is really important, I think. Absolutely. And let it, let your system evolve from need more than, you know, set it up like, oh, I need this list because it's in the book. No, you don't need that list if you don't need it. You will know when you need that and then build it, make that list. Exactly. Any other final thoughts? I think we have more or less.

Lars: Exhausted this Yeah, no, I think, I think we did. We, we sort of went through the different, um, aspects that I thought might be worthwhile investigating, focusing on, on the organization and then other reflections around those different lists. So hopefully this was, uh, most valuable to people out there. Um, so unless you have something to add, we maybe want to wrap this one up.

Morten: Yes. Well, Lars, take.

Lars: Us out. Just had to give you that opportunity to say it. And I will go ahead and say my piece, which is that we always wrap up these episodes by reminding you to head on over to gtdnordic.com to have a look around and find the local country websites for each of the GTD franchisees in the Nordics. And on those sites, you will find all of the articles about GTD, links to newsletters, groups on social media, and of course, all of our different offerings regarding speeches, coaching, and seminars. If you're outside the Nordics, head on over to gettingthingsdone.com to find your local partners. Also, if you're not watching us right now, just a quick reminder that you could be watching us if you wanted to do so. You can find each of these episodes on YouTube now. You will find the links to both Morten's and my channel in the show notes for each of the episodes. So be sure to subscribe there as well. And lastly, as always, we really hope that you find these episodes valuable. If GTD has made a difference in your life, please consider helping us spreading the message to more people by giving the podcast a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen. It really helps other people discover and learn GTD, which is why we're here.

Morten: So thanks for that. Yes. Just a quick word about the YouTube channels. I've got some very nice comments from you guys, your listeners, to some of the episodes. Thank you so much for that.

Lars: Me too.

Morten: Thank you. Yeah. So, so we are super happy for that. And if you have not subscribed yet, either on the podcast itself or in the YouTube, please consider doing that because then you will get notified when there is new episodes. So that's a good idea.

Lars: So I think that's a good next action.

Morten: That's a good next action.

Lars: Less than 2 minutes.

Morten: Go, go, go.

Lars: Yeah, yeah.

Morten: Go, go, go. Okay. Thank you so much for, for listening to us. And until next time, stay safe and stay productive.

Lars: Bye-bye. Bye everyone.