59. GTD Areas of Focus

Transcript

Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.

Morten: Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast. I am Morten Røvik, and I am with my good friend and colleague Lars Rothschild Henriksen here again from the GTD Nordic. Qué tal, amigo?

Lars: Hi, Morten. Happy to be back. Good to see you as always, and looking forward to recording another episode for our listeners and viewers. Viewers. If you have not listened to our podcast before, the goal for us is to help you learn GTD or become even better GTDers. And as always, we hope that these episodes support you in that. If you are new to GTD or would like a refresher on the 5 steps, then we recommend you go back and listen to episodes 1 through 6 of the podcast to get an introduction to the basics of GTD. This is episode number 59 of the podcast, and today we'll be talking about a topic that I was sure we had covered way back, but apparently not.

Morten: No, we had not. That topic is Areas of Focus and Responsibility, and we will cover that in depth today so that if you are new to this concept, you will see how it fits into the Horizons of Focus and to the methodology as such, and how you can use that in creating an overview of everything you committed to do something about, at least areas that will birth something you will commit to do something about. But before we get there, I want to talk about something I've not told you I will talk about. So this is Morten from the sides coming. No, you know, I try to throw you off your balance by introducing a new way of saying hello or how are you in— I've noticed. Yes, you have. And I'm sure our listeners also have seen this, and I probably killed some ears to some people where I tried to pronounce your language. So I would like to invite people to send us an email to podcast@gtdnordic.dk with at least your country where you're listening from and how to say hello. And please keep it clean because I will say that on air, and I prefer not needing to Google that before So, so keep it clean. And, and if you, you think I will pronounce it wrong, please, uh, add a little, um, soundbite. Um, you can do it from your phone, you can do it by your iPhone, or just do our voice memo and send that memo to me with the, the, the name of whatever you want me to, to say. And please, again, keep it clean. So podcast@gtdnordic.dk with whatever you want me to try and throw Lars off with. A greeting from your country, which we have not seen yet. We have a lot of listeners from very distant reaches of the world, almost everywhere, which is super cool. So if I haven't covered your language yet, please let me know and I'll give it a shot.

Lars: So I'll be looking out for if we get a sort of an explicit sign, the E on Apple Podcast. We know that we apparently said something we shouldn't.

Morten: Yeah, but keep it clean, please. Yeah, so yeah, we have nice listeners. GTGers are the nicest people on earth. So okay, okay, that aside, Lars, areas of focus, they are part of the Horizons of Focus model of getting things done. So just for the listeners, I think that I will give a brief overview. You can dive into the their areas of focus and we can look at them more in depth. But, you know, we have two axes in Getting Things Done. We have Control where the five steps of Getting Things Done comes in: capture everything that has your attention, clarify what it means to you, organize it into a system, reflect and review that system on a regular basis, and then engage. That's the five steps of Getting Things Done. And we have then the Horizons aspect where we lift the gaze to where you want to be in life, where Where would you like your life to lead you? Where is your preferred purpose of life? What would you like to do, etc.? And this model is, you know, the two axes gives you a model where you get really good at getting things done. And the second part is giving you the possibility to find out where are you going with all this getting done things. So I'm going to, for those of you who are on, you know, see this on YouTube, you will now see the areas of focus and accountability, the Horizons of Focus model. So Lars, will you take us through the Horizons of Focus model?

Lars: I can do that. And yeah, perhaps this is a good episode to swing by YouTube to watch the episode as well. And at least on my channel, I've noticed several new subscribers. So great. That people are also switching to watching. And especially, I think this episode will be helpful for them to see. So what you see on the screen right now, and if you're just listening, I'll run through them. There are 6 levels of focus in the Horizon of Focus model, where the ground level is all the things that are placed in your calendar, time-specific actions. And we have your next actions lists as well. That's the ground level of the Horizons of Focus. Above that, we have everything you're committed to completing. So that's the Horizon 1, meaning projects. So everything you're committed to completing within the next 12 months, everything that takes more than one action step to complete. That's what we're looking at from that perspective. Then Horizon 2 is the one that we'll dive into today, which is areas of focus and accountability. What are you committed to maintaining at certain standards, both from a work perspective and at home as well, covering both those, um, those spheres of your life. Above that, we have Horizon 3, goals and objectives. So looking a bit further into the future, where projects are limited to around 12 months, then what if we look a bit further into the future? Where do you want to be? What are the goals that you're aiming towards? Again, both personally and professionally, those go on Horizon 3. Horizon 4 is the vision for where you want to be. So where are you really aiming when we look even further into the future, where things are, you know, in the ideal scenario, where where would you like to be? And lastly, Horizon 5, purpose and principles. So purpose of your company, your own personal purpose, and the principles, the standards of how you work and engage in life, basically. I think that's the quick walkthrough model. And it seems that I lost you.

Morten: You have not lost me, but I have muted myself. There we are again, Zoom syndrome. No, I was saying That was a very good and accurate description of the Horizons of Focus model. We are going then to zoom in on the Horizons of Focus and Accountability. When I describe this, I describe the areas of focus and accountability. These are often divided into two spheres: work or professional-related and personal-related. Which are areas you would like to focus on or that you have a responsibility for. And these areas— and this is a little important, people, listen up, because a lot of people that I coach don't understand this— they put areas of focus on their project lists. Don't do that, please. I'm now trying to save you money because you don't need me for coaching you if you get this. Oh yeah, but probably you do. But hey, I will save these pennies by saying that if you are putting, you know, having a map somewhere written down, we will show you how to make this a little later. If you make this, the areas of focus and accountability are areas where you will birth projects. These areas of focus and accountability, when you look at them, you will say, 'Hmm, I'm not happy with this area. This— I'm not maintaining this at the standard I'm comfortable with. Let me create a project to do that.' And, and what the reason I'm saying pay attention is because I see a lot of people put areas of focus and accountability on their projects list. Like, it says budget. Okay, you may be responsible for the budget, but what budget? You know, the budget as the whole thing, that's an area of focus. But if you have budget and then says Budget 2022 Finalized, then suddenly there is a project that has a start and an end, and it is an assigned outcome with a project verb. So the difference of area— focus areas of focus and projects are the fact that areas of focus don't have next actions connected to them, but they will give birth to projects to maintain that area. Do you have anything to add to that description, Loris? Do you Something that people understand.

Lars: Yeah, no, I think that makes sense. And I do see that as well, that you can sometimes tend to mix these areas of focus into projects. And I've seen that with the coaching clients and seminar participants as well, that this can certainly happen. And it's, you know, coming back to having a clear project list and the value of that, it really helps to move these to a different map. Basically, so taking them out of the projects list, having a separate, separate place to store these. You can still group them if that makes sense for you to group your projects by areas of focus, and that can certainly be a way to organize your projects list. But seeing them as two different things, I think, is critical.

Morten: Yeah, just imagine that they are folders, and inside the folders you have files. So the areas of focus are folders, and then The projects are files. So that's— and you can't— a folder cannot, can never be a file, and a file can never be a folder, just by the nature of it. So let's dive into this further. Let's go to— and I will show another slide now, which is Areas of Focus Professional. And this is a mind map that we show people when we do the Level 2 training. I'm actually doing a Level 2 training now, today, tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow, a virtual one. And that's why I'm— this is very close to my attention right now. So this is a way to mind map out your areas of focus. It's a way to get it out of your head, actually. So, but some people don't like mind maps, they are uncomfortable with them. I don't know how to use them, but it is really just a tool to get ideas outside. And for some people, myself included, it has been really helpful doing this mind map. How do you see people doing this when they're not doing mind maps, Loris? Have you seen people do it?

Lars: Yes, I certainly recognize it. And that was actually one of the takeaways for me from the Level 2 seminar was just a reminder to use these mind maps because I did notice a clear shift in my ability to get things out of my head. And this more free format, just draw a new line, line, just write something there. Something else came up, right? I'll draw a new line and write something there. It just seemed like a more free way to get things out of your head. So it was certainly helpful for me to write it this way. But you could, you know, if you wanted to make a list instead, then you can certainly do that as well. But for me, it was really helpful actually to really try to draw this out as a mind map. That worked really well for me. And, you know, I would tend to really you know, we all have habits of how we do things, how we write things down. I was really focused on, I like my list, and this is one list, and then there's one item on the list, and on the next item, and the next item, and, you know, that kind of thinking. And it was really just helpful for me to draw it out in this way instead. So yeah, hopefully that makes sense for people to try that out as well.

Morten: Yeah. And I just want to, if you are not familiar with the mind maps, try it out. I suggest just have a pen and paper and just start making a, you know, write something, me in the circle, you know, that's your name, and then make a circle around that and start to see what am I responsible for at work, and then trying to map that out. Just try to play with it, see if it's, you know, rings a bell or, you know, makes you release some energy positive for this. If not, go use it, do make a Word document maybe instead and make the first topics that comes to mind as the header of the documents. So the training development committees or whatever could work.

Lars: So you can still format and move things below. So you still have a relationship between them.

Morten: So, but think of it as nested, like you said, headers and then bullet points under and then maybe sub-bullets under there. So, So if we follow this mind map further on, so this, this is an HR professional who has training and development committees, organization development, etc., and then follow her path of opening up her areas of focus. And now we added on training and development, best practices, R&D, training resources, etc. And this is the way to just get everything out there that you have responsibility for. And at the last level here, she is responsible for some personnel, 5 people that she is responsible for. And the idea here is to map what areas of focus and accountability you think you have. And one of the things I've seen is that a lot of people, when they write this, they understand, oh gosh, I'm overcommitted. And I say, yes, you are. Have you seen that?

Lars: You know, yeah, yeah, it's such an interesting perspective to try and draw and get an overview of that and see where does all my work come from, where does it come from. And also to flip it around and say, okay, so what am I actually doing that does not perhaps fit this outline. So one of the things that struck me when I have been working with people on this, for example, in coaching, one place to start would be to look at your job description. But what I've found, and I'm curious to hear what you've found as well, Morten, is that rarely does that match up. I work with a professor at a university, and we took that as a starting point. But in reality, what her responsibilities were and, and, you know, how things had shaped out initially from that initial job description. It really was an interesting perspective to, to take back and, and again to discuss work. We often talk about taking your projects list and maybe sharing it with your boss to just, you know, clarify. So this is all the stuff I'm committed to right now. So you can see there's a lot of stuff going on. Another perspective that's really interesting is this areas of focus where it's Yeah, it's in, in, in several cases, I found that these didn't really match up with the original job descriptions, or at least there were many more moving parts than, than the job description might've shown. I don't know what your experience is, Juan.

Morten: I have exactly the same as that. A lot of people, there's a mismatch between what they, what their job description says and what they're actually doing. And that's welcome to the knowledge workers reality. This is how it works because you are, you're hired to do a job and then suddenly it morphs into something different and you get some more responsibilities because some person thinks that this, oh, he or she can do this, you know, do a good job, let's give her, he or she, this in addition. So, but then my thinking here is that when you map this out and do it as, as honestly as you can for things that you really think that this is my professional, professional areas of focus, and then take this with you to your boss and ask if this is correct. Does this match with your boss's or your superiors', you know, definition of what you're supposed to engage your time in? And I would say that especially if you understand that I have overcommitted myself because I can't deliver on all these areas of focus and my projects is, you know, they are I'm not in good shape for this. I don't have projects for a lot of these areas of focus. And if that happens, then you have a way to, you know, a way to have a conversation with your boss that is constructive, where you can show your boss, this is what I think I am, you know, accountable for, and it's too much. What needs to go for me to have good days? That's my take on this. Do you have something to add to that?

Lars: Or— Yeah, but there are so many different ways we could look at this and how we could use it. I just had a coaching client that actually where we quickly drew this up, and he brought this with him to his new boss, and it gave them a really nice sort of platform to discuss how he was spending his time. So one perspective is certainly to look at these different areas of focus and see so how much time to actually spend on these different ones. What is actually taking up my time? Also, if we look back at the threefold nature of work, the different types of work, all the unplanned work, where does that show up, for example, and how much of that time is actually— how much of that area of focus is taking up my time based on unplanned work? So, I think this can trigger some really, really interesting discussions. And perhaps for those out there listening who are entrepreneurs and work with multiple businesses, I've seen this from several entrepreneurs, also some that I have coached, that once we started doing this, well, instead of just, you know, these different areas that we see now on screen, it was different businesses. And under each of those businesses, there were this and this and this and this area of focus. So it really became a significant map and also just helped highlight that, wow, if I have, you know, I probably have 24 hours in my day just as just the next guy. But this triggered actually for, in both of those cases that come to mind, that they closed down businesses. That they simply saw that the time I spend on this, that the amount of time that I invest on a weekly or maybe even daily basis to make this run, all things considered, and also taking into consideration the personal sphere, this just did not work for them. So, it can really trigger some big and impactful thoughts.

Morten: Yeah, the idea of these maps are just to show you what you've committed to do something about and the areas you need to maintain. And if you understand that, hey, I have overcommitted myself, then that's a good thing. It's never a bad thing to realize if you made a mistake or if you made, you know, and I would say that overcommitment overcommitting is one of the— if you have a knowledge workers sin register, this will be on that. That together with time optimism is probably the two worst stress drivers in the world, that you overcommit and you are time optimist. Then this is the roadmap to burnout. So, which we also have an episode for. So if you're on the route there, look in the registry. I'm sure Lars will make a note to link to that because if you are, this is a way to map out what have I, what do I have a responsibility for? And is that accurate? Is that good for me? And you can have that discussion with yourself and those around you. So it helps you.

Lars: Yeah, it really, really gives you clarity. And also, I think for those of you working perhaps in bigger companies, but at least in a company where you've been for a while, because I do see a tendency that when you move from one position to the next, it really just, you know, letting go of all the previous areas of focus and responsibility, that can be difficult. I do, I remember that back from my, my days as well as an IT consultant where we would work clients, and, you know, you'd come across some, some people that you worked with that were really, really busy. And looking at the work that they were supposed to do, it was pretty clear that there was something else going on. And that was often because they were such a knowledgeable and helpful person that they would often sort of, oh, we can, we can still go and ask Thomas to see if we can get his feedback on this. I know he left that position 3 years ago, but he's still, you know, the smartest guy when it comes to, you know, compensation planning or whatever it might be. So keep that in mind as well if you try to draw it your own.

Morten: Yeah, yeah, I do agree with you. This is what I find. I also see I've done a couple of coachings with two different, two or three different coaching clients who had, were in between two jobs or they had two jobs where they are they were at the time. In between, they have just— they're migrating from one job to another. And to have a map of what I've had and what I have, and then it's also later easy to let go of what you had. So if you make, you know, two branches, one old job, one new job, it's easier to then just cut the old job off when you're finished. And then if somebody asks you, you can decide whether, if, yeah, do I have time or not? Or is it within my interest? Or do I want to make, you know, the extra effort necessary to help my colleagues in my old job?

Lars: So yeah, building on that, I think also I'm reminded of, I think it's in Making It All Work, the book also written by David Allen, where I think he refers to a handover from one GTDer to the next in this transitional period. I believe it's from the perspective of the projects list,. But it could, you know, having this list, this mind map or whatever shape it might be in, it would be.

Morten: So valuable to walk through. Yeah. Imagine that you are replacing a person going out, you know, in child labor or changing job, or at least you are coming into a predefined, you know, work role and having this served on your first day, and then a list of all the active projects that are on the run here that you have to take and commit to and finish. The handover process is so much more elegant when you have this, wouldn't you say?

Lars: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Morten: No doubt. Okay, then I suggest we shift focus for where is the focus for professional to personal. And often, at least for me, I see that a lot of people have very, you know, complex personal lives. And this map here is probably just for one individual that has a fairly simple life, I would say, because I don't know if you've noticed, but people marry and they remarry, and then they don't have just one set of children, they have two, three sets of children they have to relate to. So this kind of gets messy. After a while. But rich, I think, yes, yes, rich. Yes, yes. So let's, on that high note, let's continue into looking into this. And as I now unfold these, you understand that there are things in this, you know, this person's life that is rich. And, but it is, it gets fairly complex when you get older, doesn't it? When you get children and you you know, and I understand also for those of you, but I have also a grandchild now. This is, you know, it gets more complex the older you get, and especially in the life where you have a lot of, like Lars is in the middle of that. He has two young boys, and it can get rich or messy, depending on how you look at it. But messy is not bad. It's just when you are in the middle of that chaos of having children and having you know, daycare and school and messages from school and healthcare, and then add a dash of Corona on top of this, and it gets messy, I think. But it's not bad. It's life. Life is messy. Wouldn't you say, Lars? Agree with me, please. If you want. Okay. So, and then we can go even further, going on this mind map here.. And really, if you haven't, if you're not on the YouTube channels now, to go there and have a look because this is going to give you a lot of ideas. And I suggest that if you are a GTDer who has not mapped out your areas of focus, personal and professional, do take the time to do this. What would you say that when you did this First time Lars, what was.

Lars: Your key takeaways? What was my key takeaways on this? I think taking a step back, actually attending the Level 2 seminar really made a big difference. I think, yeah, Level 1 as well, but where I was at already in my GTD journey, the Level 2 really made a big difference and mainly Natural Planning model, but especially also these areas of focus really just added a significant new layer and really added some angles, had some value that I just had not seen in the GTD system before. And it might just have been that, that taste of the higher horizons where I was, you know, started off with GTD and really focused very much on projects, next actions, and really just let life take me wherever it took me. I just grabbed the things that showed up and completed them. And then I got to some really nice, cool new places. But it was really important to get this area of focus into play as well and getting that overview, especially as a, you know, founder of a company and as a father and setting some standards for myself for these different areas that was just so essential really to get this map built out for me. So I think one of the things that it helps me with today, and that's really also core to the areas of focus is to feel good about all the things that are going on. Or if there's one area that you're not comfortable with that does not, you know, you don't look at that area and say, yeah, that's good. You know, there's something, you know, I need to do something about this. And that, you know, brings in the projects that you mentioned, or perhaps just the next action to check in on something to see that things are actually where they should be. And I think especially coming from now from this, the personal one, One of the things that I had not seen before in the work that I had done with GTD was this depth that you could go into with these areas of focus. I think I might have had an idea of these sort of overall areas of focus that we start off with before you start to dig deeper into each of them. And for me personally, one of the things that I like to highlight is, for example, in relation to my voice. So like you said, 2 young boys, 3 and 6, things that I focus on in relation to them. That's, that's, I really like that part of the areas of focus map that I have on my sort of personal level. So for my, my oldest boy, it's, you know, he started school some months ago. How's he doing when it comes to friends? You know, activities, playing soccer, playing badminton, you know, how is his development? We like to, to play around with the letters and things like that to make sure that he's having fun with that. He's also what we from a GCD perspective would call high mover. So the Kairos cognition version, he has a lot of energy. So how can we help him with that? For example, I like to be reminded about that every time I bring up this map that it can sometimes be when let's calm down, let's have a nice and calm evening and sometimes just not possible. So how can we help him in that sense in instead of that becoming an argument, for example, which it might as well have been if that wasn't on my radar to see if we could sort of angle that differently. So that's one of the places where it really made a big difference for.

Morten: Me when it comes to the personal level. Yeah, it is, it is, you know, a good reflection you do there, I think, for, you know, especially when it comes to, you know, children are, they are who they are. And you try to mold them, help them to become good citizens of the country you belong to, so that they will have a good and successful life, whatever they want to do or however they want to operate. But to forget that that is actually a process and that you have to take into account how their brains are wired, how their DNA is showing up. And if he's a high mover, make sure he gets to move and enjoy that instead of so many— I'm getting a little both philosophical and partially a little political here, but I've seen so many unfortunate parts from society when it comes to schooling who's not supportive to help children that have special needs or are special in any way, really. And that's a shame, even though we believe in one of the, you know, Denmark and Norway is one of the highest rated educational systems in the world. And we are not doing enough for those who don't fit into that, you know, that, you know, what do you call that, square peg in a round hole. Yeah, exactly. What do we do with the square pegs?

Lars: So, well, enough. We try to support that. And also, you know, I think having two kids, you could maybe tend to start off thinking, okay, so we'll just do a rerun of version number one, like anyone else who has more than one child. How's that working out for you? Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's not the same. It's just these are two different children. So again, that would be different from my youngest as well. So that's again helpful filter and perspective to put on the life that I live.

Morten: I just want to touch on one thing because I feel that we are, well, I will give you a chance to answer that after, but one of the things that I see that A lot of people don't put on their areas of focus or accountability when I coach them or I get a chance to see their system. It's themselves. You know, it is very easy to not focus on you. So that's— remember to put you somewhere there so that, you know, your personal development, your health, Your— one thing I would highly recommend that you have a category for yourself that's called fun or things I like to do, things that gives me energy, things that I, you know, hang out with friends or I don't know what gives you energy or what ticks your fancy, but make sure that you are not forgetting that. Have you seen the same thing, Lars, when you coach people that they forget themselves or focus on everybody externally?

Lars: Does that happen? I think where I— yeah, that's certainly the case. I think it helps when you do these areas of focus for yourself. They will— part of them will tend to show up. So when you see the example, I don't know if that happens when people learn GTD on their own necessarily, but especially when we walk through this exercise in the Level 2 seminar, when people see this, oh, right, yeah, that's something about health There's something about hobbies, things like that. I have one on my list that also, yeah, I would say it probably surprises people that it's on the list and it probably shouldn't. I have one area of focus called enjoy life. And it's that's probably the same thing that you're angling at. So I added this because my dad passed away when he was 63. So just before retiring. And making sure that you enjoy life as it progresses. That's what that entails for me. So just like you said, what do you enjoy doing? So some of the things on my list, like personal creativity development, GTD obviously is on my list on a personal level as well. I like to do some DIY things at the summer house and build some electronics and play my piano and and, you know, spend time with the family in nature is also on that list, for example. And just on that topic as well, or at least related to that, one thing that my wife and I added to the areas of focus list this summer when we did our joint review together, we added some things that we wanted to have sort of a shared focus on. I don't know if this is just something I came up with in the moment or if it's something that other people have worked with. But, but what did we want to focus on now? So that's things like more, more nature, more, more go camping or hiking, more exercise with the boys, more adventure was, was the 5 things that actually showed up on that list. So just to show, share with the listeners and viewers some, some different perspective.

Morten: As well that might work for them. And as you would show your areas of focus professional to your boss, maybe you want to do that on the personal side as well. Show it.

Lars: To your boss. Shared lists are good and bad. They can be dangerous. I know that from personal experience. I know that from a lot of, you know, let's say people that attend a Level 1 seminar and then show up for the Level 2. If they have, they often have stories where they, yeah, I got this really cool way of working and look at this list and we can just add lists to what we need to do around the house. I'll share this with you. You.

Morten: And then some more things suddenly showed up. Yes, yes. I think send things to my inbox and I will process them. It's a good idea. I will clarify and organize them and then maybe they will be on a someday maybe list. It's a good idea. But to do this exercise, if you've done this on your personal level, with you in focus, that is, create a mind map of your personal areas of focus and accountability. Discuss that with your spouse, your partner, and ask, are we in agreement on this? This is my responsibility, and this is— maybe you want to map out yours as well so that we are— because I see this all the time. We talk to people who are in And that's friends and that's people, you know, in general that we meet. I meet at least say that, hey, my wife or my husband, he doesn't do this and she doesn't do that. And there is, you know, areas of arguments could be instead converted to areas of focus and accountability. What areas are you responsible for? Is it really me? Is it— do I have a responsibility to pick up the towel from the— after I've, you know, from the floor, or is it you? And to have that mapped out and discussed, that could be also, you know.

Lars: Release some positive energy, hopefully. And in that discussion, if you're really daring, you can go in to look at standards. So what are the standards? Not only who does it, but what's the standard?

Morten: So how many— How full should the dustbin be before we empty it? Exactly.

Lars: How much, you know, stuff do we need to leave? Have to be clean that we leave in the kitchen, table, how big does that get before we get it to.

Morten: Zero again with the washing machine or however you would? On that note, I would just be generous, give each other, give yourself and your spouse and your partner room to be who they are. Because if you went down that, the dustbin level part, it might not end up where you wanted to be. It becomes, oh, you didn't do that and you didn't do this. And it's kind of like, yeah.

Lars: I think more awareness that we have different standards is probably where we want to go. I might leave another dirty glass on the sofa table and my wife might not want them to be there. So just awareness of that, I think.

Morten: I think it's probably the key. Yeah. But what I've also found that when you are doing GTD, where you are more present in the moment, it's easier to change your ways around the house so that if you are the glass on the sofa table person, it's easier to remember to take that, put it in the dishwasher when you leave the table. If you don't have a lot of other things on your mind at the same time yelling at you.

Lars: So yeah, and awareness of other people's standards and awareness of the other things that need to take place. But you know, How frequently do we need to vacuum the house? That is a place where I know that my wife and I differ. So finding a sort of suitable level that works for both of us, that's.

Morten: A good terrifying— In the post-show, I will ask you what's the difference. No, okay. No, maybe there's something I— This is some information I don't need, I think.

Lars: Let's just say she has a Roomba.

Morten: On her wish list for Christmas. Yes, I also have one of those, but that's because it's easy. And there are some really good ones that new— now we are diverging from the topic, but good robo cleaners.

Lars: Watch the next episode as we will be.

Morten: Sponsored by— iRoomba, no, something. Yes, Roborock. I don't know. But no, we will never do that, I hope. But we will maybe review some technology or something that will help you get better at getting things done. So, okay, I think we can round this puppy up.

Lars: Do you agree with me? I think one last thing to mention is just the the work-life balance perspective or life-work balance, as I noted that David referred to it in the, I think, also Making It All Work book. And I actually like that the life part came before work. But, you know, that added a layer for my understanding of work-life balance when I had these areas of focus mapped out. So, you know, balance is just, I don't know if that's the right word because that's kind of loaded and would imply that there is necessarily an equal weight on both sides. But having that, you know, in-depth view of, for example, my personal areas of focus, that maybe if things have been, you know, been a bit busy at work for some time, I had to travel for a while, maybe that when I review my areas of focus, I will be reminded that I probably need to set up some, you know, let's go to the movies with my boys, or let's, you know, spend some more time with my wife, let's go out for dinner, things like that. So, it really really, it's helpful for me to think of work-life balance in that way. And also just an amazing trigger list to make sure that I feel good about my life, that I'm working on the right things, that things are in balance or as I want them to be. And if not, that I have projects to make them go where I need them to be.

Morten: That's why they're so critical for me. Good. Me too. So it's helpful. For you to live the life you want to live. Exactly. Exactly. Okay, should we then try and wrap this puppy up?

Lars: Let us wrap up this rich or complex slash messy discussion with a quick reminder for you to head on over to gtdnordic.com. If you are based in the Nordic region, have a look around and find your local country website. On that site, you will find all of the news articles, links to the different services that we offer in each of those countries, links to groups on social media where natives discuss the methodology, etc. And of course, all of our offerings with speeches, coaching, and seminars, both physical and virtual. If you're outside the Nordics, gettingthingsdone.com is the place to go to find your local partner. And if you're not already watching, perhaps you are now that today we spend a bit of time on the visual side of things. But if you're not, we just want to remind you that we have both our YouTube channels where we will be posting these so you can watch them there. Links to those in the show notes as well. And thanks to those of you who recently subscribed. Lastly, as always, we really hope that you find these episodes valuable. If you do, we really appreciate if you share the episode with a client or rate us in your podcast player. It really helps the discoverability and hopefully then helps more people learn GTDN and.

Morten: Get the benefits that comes with it. Indeed. Thank you so much for listening and watching, if you were watching. At least you're listening. So until next time, stay safe and.

Lars: Stay organized, something like that.

Morten: And productive. And productive. And messy. Stay messy. Okay, take care, guys. Thank you. Bye-bye.