33. Getting Things Wrong®

Transcript

Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.

Morten: Hi and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from GTD Nordic. I am still Morten Røvik, and I'm still here with my long-term friend and colleague Lars Rothschild Henriksen. Hello, Lars.

Lars: Hi, Morten. Good to be with you and looking forward to sharing some more thoughts on GTD with our listeners in this episode. If you haven't listened to this podcast before, the goal for us is to help you learn or become an even better GTDer so you can become more productive, get a better overview of all your commitments, and be better at staying present with whatever you're engaged in at the moment at work or at home. And we really hope that you find these episodes valuable regardless of your experience with GTD. And if you'd like a refresher or learn more about the basics of GTD, the 5 steps, then we recommend you go back and listen to episodes 1 through 6 of this podcast.

Morten: Indeed, and today's topic is an interesting one. This is a topic that we got from our colleague in Finland, Mr. Jukka Bachmann. He suggested we record for our own learning something we call the registered trademark "Getting Things Wrong." Is that not right?

Lars: That is right, yes.

Morten: Have we ever gotten something wrong about getting things done?

Lars: That might have occurred a couple of times. So, yeah, this comes from, from Juca, who started to draft this most, this list of most common things that self-taught GTDers get wrong when implementing GTD on their own. So that's really the topic of the day, looking at some of the most common people mistakes or GTD mistakes that people make. And hopefully this will be helpful for some of our listeners in fixing their own GTD practice or tweaking it, maybe. So let's dive into the first one. The first one, the practice was called Due Date Overdose, and the way you could describe it was the use of due dates in nearly every task. The most common explanation is to, in quotation marks, plan with due dates, i.e., assign a date in order to avoid using context lists, and the resulting— the result is called the snowplow, meaning an overwhelming number of tasks are always plowed onwards to the next day. Does that sound familiar to you, Morten?

Morten: Yes, and I think we can call this episode, uh, Hi, I'm Morten and I am recovering GTDer, because I think that, you know, the worst practices you can have— if you've— most of us started alone learning GTD. You did, I did, and we got things wrong the whole time, the whole time. And I had— I really I did the due date overdose. I took more than one of those. My idea at the time was that I need to bring this to my attention. It's very important. I have to do this today or maybe tomorrow. So I put a due date to make sure it shows up. But then you have the snowplow effect when suddenly something unforeseen happens and you move it to the next day and then suddenly you are in You spend time moving things around instead of doing things. And I remember very clearly Meg Edwards told me during my coaching with her to become a coach that she looked at this and said, "Morten, do you really want to have this?" And I said, "Yes," I insisted. But I would change my ways later. I still use due dates for the most important things, really something I can't forget to do today. But I also tend to pull it into the calendar instead to make sure it happens rather than bring it to my attention as something that has a due date. And I think maybe a lot of people do. I don't know if you've done this, but you put on a due date ping. You get a specific time, you get a notification, and this is kind of like, oh dear, don't go there. Don't do this to yourself. I found a solution for me. My feeling that I have to see this has been kind of overwhelming. But before we go there, have you seen this, Lars? Have you done this?

Lars: Yes, for sure as well. I clearly remember this. Yeah, I think for me, much of my work was, back when I was an IT consultant, was really a lot of project management and making sure that all of the moving parts were being moved on in order in order for us to reach our deadlines. And much of that took place via email. We had a lot of outsourcing, a lot of international work, so email was really the best place for us to be at that time. And that meant a lot of follow-ups. And back then, I was very keen on using the flags in Outlook to put some due dates on those. And that sea of red, I clearly remember that. You know, when things passed the date that you set on it, it would it would then turn red. And I clearly remember that long list of red things. And I've seen that so many times afterwards as well, coaching people, working with people in our seminars. It really happens to a lot of people. So making sure that we don't, you know, put too many due dates on things that can really overwhelm a system. And also for me, you know, we were talking about this a bit, or, you know, in part about this before we started recording about this, you know, the ability to make your own choices on what to do at any given time. And that, I think, maybe is even more important for me than the average person. I think that inner 5-year-old or 8-year-old who wants to decide on his own, I think he has a bigger voice inside my head than maybe other people. So it really matters more to me that I can make that choice rather than the smart Lars last week made that decision for me.

Morten: Indeed. The way I've solved this is that I made in my system, I have the ability to put a context or a tag, if you may, on a task that I think is, or next action I need to do. It's called the dog, which is today. Then it softly shows up in my system when I go for a forecast and see what I need to do today.. It will not be overdue. It will always be today, and I can then take things off and on there as I see needed. But it's a more soft approach. And the idea here is that when you have your lists are long of overdue things and you are more, you know, the opposite of stress-free productivity is stress productivity. And when your lists you know, you feel nauseated looking at them because there are so many things that are not done, then you're not attracted to them and you're repelled by them. And this is, of course, not good. This is overwhelm lists more than getting things done lists. Okay, so stop doing that. Don't put due dates on your tasks.

Lars: Yeah, be careful with it for sure, because I really distinguish in my system between what's what's in my system. And what's in my system is really things for me to reflect on, things that bubble up for me to make a decision on. So a lot of ticklers, I'm just looking at my system now. We're recording this on a Monday, and Monday is always my, the date that I set on things, for example, in my tickler file to reconsider whether now is the right time. So looking at it now, it's a mix of, you know, should we look into making this new cooperation with this organization? In Denmark, a lot of business stuff in there, some stuff showing up from checklists regarding seminars coming up next week and the week after, and also personal stuff, whether it's time to, you know, should I take the top off the, you know, the, some of the, the bushes and then things at the summer house now before it gets too cold and it might damage the tree. So it's a, it's a nice mix of random things, and those are really just for me to, to consider during today, whether it's something that I want to put on my list or, you know, postpone for for some more time.

Morten: For those of you who are not familiar with the term tickler file, this is a way in the Getting Things Done methodology to bring things to your attention at a specific time. And normally you would then put it into your inbox if you decide to do something about it, or then just move it into the future if need be. So are we happy with our coverage of due date.

Lars: Overdose? Yeah, I think so. I think so. It really is a common one. So, so be careful if you're trying to overplan and you see yourself moving those tasks from day to day, then really reconsider how you can be more.

Morten: Dynamic in your planning. And don't be a due date addict. Fight the habits and go a healthier place with your lists. So, and the next is called creative contexts. What is this, Loris? And have you seen this ever?

Lars: Yeah, so it's, you know, adapting the lists to suit you is really one of the, the key things for me, and I think many others, to make sure that GTD works as it should for you. So, so having the right— your 5-year-old, you know, exactly. And then making sure that— exactly. And presented to the, to the 5-year-old in a way that, that he prefers. For me, um, but no, the examples that Jukka gave was, was these. Instead of using the, the context list that we start off with in GTD, and maybe you make your own, you might have turned over to things such as urgent and quick, or urgent and takes 2 hours, or urgent business routines and soon, and things like that, instead of having these standard lists and maybe adapt them such as, you know, computer, or at office, or calls, or agenda lists instead. And it really, you know, again, it comes back to trying to prioritize things, and then life changes, and you have to replan, reprioritize. So in a way, this very much relates to same due date overdose in the sense that you don't give yourself the option to choose what you should be working on right now based on the current realities.

Morten: So for listeners who are new to GTD, I would like to take just a little step back. When I got into productivity back in the day with time management, some of you remember and know this. Where you do ABC, 1, 2, 3 prioritization of things. We've found that not to be very productive, basically because if you— let's say that you have 2 A tasks and 3 B tasks and 5 C tasks, which means A is most important, should be done first. And what happens if you get something that's more important than A, do you then move A to B and B to C? What do you do with the Cs? Do you make, create a D category? Where do they go? And, and, or do you make an AA category and then put it in there? And, and the reason, you know, that when you will spend more time moving stuff around than doing GTD, which is, I think David Allen would call this productivity pornography, where you're more interested in fiddling with your system than actually doing the So David Allen has, when we come to engage, he has devised this thinking around how to prioritize, how to find out what to do today. Maybe you will take us through that execute part of GTD when you have your tasks in your list and how do you choose what to do in the moment?

Lars: I'm guessing you're referring to the limiting criteria, meaning as a starting point where you are at and what tools you have at hand. So that's, that's the reason that we group next actions in the way that we, that we start off with. So figuring out where do I actually need to be or which tools do I need to have at hand to actually perform this task. So that's where we start off initially. You could say that you could have one long list of next actions, but to make it easier for you to choose, and then that's how we start to group things.

Morten: And just a little add-on to this is that when you go to the next part of the limiting criteria, this is where things start to bleed together, where you have how much time do you have is the second question. And then the third question is how much energy do you have? And then fourthly, what has your— what is most important? What would give you the most payoff to do now? Actually, people are trying to take all of these and morph them together and then you get urgent and quick. Urgent takes 2 hours. Yeah, etc. So I'm sorry, I cut you off.

Lars: No, no, but that's exactly, that's exactly it. And it's, it's always fun to talk to people about this because people do tend to, to want to prioritize straight away. Um, and I think any GTD out there has tried to, to start off by prioritizing and really see, seeing if they could sort of help themselves out and simplifying this decision by prioritizing when you clarify. But in the end, it just, uh, just creates more work. And obviously there will be some times where, you know, deadline is in 2 there is no doubt that this is what I need to work on, then obviously that choice has been made for you. But when you have the option to choose, then the limits and criteria is a starting point.

Morten: I've tried this less than 1 hour, more than 1 hour, 2 hours as a tag to put on some contexts. So you have at office, less than 1 hour. But that didn't work for me because it's too much to relate to. Have you tried some creative contexts yourself?

Lars: Yeah, so I've worked— I've coached one, one guy that comes to mind where we set up a computer-2 hours because his calendar rarely gave him 2 hours to work on something. So we set up that list for him. And I think to some extent that worked for him, but also it was, you know, just as much helpful reflection for him when he did his weekly review to see if I need to move forward on this, I need to block time in my calendar to get this, this done. So it sort of served two purposes, I think, in his system. And just, you know, from looking at my system right now, I'm experimenting again with some different lists, seeing if I can, you know, make it easier for me to work on the right things at the right time. And one that I recently added was a writing list. So I think I stole this from Robert Peake in the UK with trying to help me, you know, have a specific list when I sit down to write things that I have this simple list to pick from what makes the most sense for me to write on. So this is something that I'm experimenting with. Experimenting with right now. I even have a new desk. I got an old desk from my— that I inherited from my father, and I've set that up. So this is going to be my new writing place in the office. So that combined with my writing list should help me become even more productive at writing. But yeah, let's see. It may be that next time I'll tell you I have a new list that suits me better.

Morten: Who knows? At my father's desk. Context, something like this. Yeah.

Lars: Yeah.

Morten: No, my, one of the lists I tried also is, I think it is actually, you mentioned Robert Peake from, or from our partners in, and friends in the UK. He introduced, I think it was him who introduced the brain dead list when you're really brain dead. I had that for a while, but it didn't work for me. But I think you, you still have this.

Lars: I still have my zombie list, as it's called, in my system, and I actually really do like it. I certainly do pick from this because there are times in the afternoon where I'm toast and there's not much time left for me. So this is a good list for me to go and look from and see if I can get some productive stuff done, even though it's at the end of the day or end of the week and not much energy left. But, you know, I can still get some productive done, get some spreadsheet work done is often what ends up on that list. And it, yeah, It actually, that one still works for me really well.

Morten: Yeah. I have two now contexts that are a little on the side or a little different is that I have on, I am Mac creative. You know, I'm at my Mac. I want, I am in the creative mood. Sometimes when I'm tired, actually being creative is something that triggers me. So I'm attracted to this. Creative is create, make something, open up Photoshop and design something.

Lars: This triggers me. And it's interesting because that would probably be a high-energy task for me. But on the other hand, if you looked at my zombie list, I'm sure there are some things on that list that a lot of people would not consider zombie stuff. So a lot of my accounting things, for example, sitting there with spreadsheet matching things, looking into why some numbers maybe don't match and I need to figure out where it didn't update correctly or something. That's zombie work for me. I love doing that even though I'm tired, and I'm sure a lot of people would— my wife maybe would set aside a few hours of high-energy time to get that under control. So it really is a different list for different people.

Morten: Yes. And that goes to show that GTD lists are personal and should be adapted to your personality. And as long as you don't break the ground rules, the founding principles of Getting Things Done, you are good to go and experiment.

Lars: Exactly. Let's grab— Yeah, if you're done with the third one or no?

Morten: No, I have just one more, which I'm kind of procrastinating this. I just want to bring it, leave it in the open here is that I have a context called home at Treadmill. And that list is growing. I'm just saying. This is just for C-stuff because I can use my iPad on the treadmill to watch the videos I need to see. And I just had a talk with, or a chat with our managing director Espen in Norway, and he says that, you know, he's under the weather a little. He's got a cold and he's going to look at his "add videos to see" list now. So that will be at his energy level. When he's in the bed with, you know, under the covers with his maybe laptop or iPad, something. That's the best he can do now. But he feels then he does something good.

Lars: Yeah, that's fun. I have that list as well.

Morten: You do? Okay.

Lars: All right. The next one that Jukka identified was that everything is a project. And the way he described it was that all actions are listed only under a project. So projects can either be on a project list or any of the context lists. And I'm sure you've seen that as well out there.

Morten: Yeah, I meet this often, is that this is traditional project planning where you have a project and you list all your next actions under that project regardless where they are, you know, the next actions are performed. And you can, you can, you know, in the old, olden times, make good argument for why this is why you're doing this. Because when you're at office, you have— you want to focus on the project more than focus on the next actions, which is, um, it's good. But then you have to make a decision on what's most important to do of the projects I have, which is difficult because you don't know what will move the needles on the different projects because you can't remember all the details. And that's where the next action lists are really good when you can then pull out the very first next action from your project and put it on the next action list. And then you can see, okay, what will give me the most— when you come to prioritize, what will give me the most benefit of finishing now? What is most urgent? What will give me the highest payoff? After you considered context, time, energy level, and then priority. Yeah, I don't know. We've all seen this and all trainers have met people in seminars who say, well, I plan like this, and then you have to do this argument that I just did. Have you seen the same?

Lars: Yeah. And I'm reminded, I think a couple of years ago, maybe even a bit more, that David mentioned that originally a lot of the people that would normally come to the seminars for sort of what we would call visionary people, and that they would be moving so fast, and they would be missing a structure to support them in moving maybe even faster, or even to start off just getting things under control. But he was mentioning that he would start to see more people actually from the organized group start to also be more attractive to GTD, and that really maybe a lot of it relates to the fact that your organization needs to be more flexible. So I've certainly seen that, you know, that you have that list of projects. Actually, pretty good GTDers showing up at seminars, but they would have their projects with the next actions next to it and maybe even on one big list, one big sheet in OneNote or something like that. And then, you know, as you just said, having to walk through. So how do you choose what to work from? And then when you take a step back and reflect on to help your future self in making the right choice at any given time, then that organization just isn't very sensible. It really makes you think through everything. You really have to do basically a weekly review every time you have to pick what you have to do or what makes sense to do. So it's switching it up and making it separate lists and giving you the right simple list to work from, feeding your brain simple tasks rather than having to think through everything at the same time. It really makes the work so much easier.

Morten: Especially, especially this is important if you're If your next actions happen on different arenas, like I have an agenda for Lars, talk to Lars about Project X regarding this item, and then that goes on the list when I talk to you. And then I can have an errands list where I have to buy something for the project. I go outside something, then I have the Monday staff meeting where I want to bring this project up. This is on another list, but it's all related to the same project. And as long as they are in different contexts, they can be more than one Next Actions on the context list attached to the same project. The idea here is that you will move as swiftly and clearly towards finishing the projects without confusing yourself. This is the idea. So everything is not a project and All next actions are not supposed to be listed under the project. So if you are in under that confusing spell, read the book again. So should we move on to color code everything? Let's do it. Yeah. So instead of clarifying the context from inbox, the emails are assigned a color that matches a task, calendar event, or anything that is far common sense. And this, Jukka has called this procrastination meets micromanagement. Have you seen this in the wild?

Lars: Yes, yes, I have as well. And I often see, you know, it can certainly make sense to use the categories. I've worked with some people where to get an overview of their calendar when they have a lot of different, you know, areas of responsibility or they want to highlight something, maybe recurring tasks that they they want to be sure that has the right attention. Maybe there may be some, some cases where this categorization can be helpful and valuable to people. But, you know, going through the inbox, I, I've seen that a number of times where they have, um, they have different, you know, colors for different emails, and they would have to filter by color, and then they would have to basically color-coded folders. Yes, maybe, maybe even, even that as well. Um, and that, that means that they again have to— then they might have organized something, but what they've organized doesn't really help them other than grouping things together by project, by customer, or whatever the grouping may be. So, so they still have to look at every email, clarify what they have to do with it, match that up, and try to figure out whether that's more important than the next email below it. It really doesn't help them. It gives them sort of an overview, but really doesn't help them getting things done.

Morten: No, exactly. And this, this is where You know, the litmus test for this would be, does your color coding help you move faster with less stress to get things done? Some people are attracted to colors. Some people are attracted to— even I have one coaching client, she really loves her emojis. So when she motivates herself, she has like a champagne bottle in the I.

Lars: Know a couple of people like that.

Morten: And she liked color coding in her system. So she liked blue is work, green is home, etc. To give— because people are visually attracted to things. And this is, of course, not bad. Not bad at all. It's good. But if you color code everything without— it doesn't give you a benefit. It, then stop. If you don't reap the rewards, why you do it?

Lars: So it's kind of like the calendar— oh, sorry, the archiving that I often see. So often when we do workshops where we sit down with people and help them really get towards inbox zero, maybe, then looking at the way that they organize emails, and often there's an elaborate system of folders that probably made sense at some point, but you know, the work that they invest in having to move each email to the right folder, but actually never maybe use that folder structure to find that email again. They always search it out, then, you know, simplifying things like that.

Morten: Yeah. So what's the next topic we have?

Lars: I think the next one, when we walk through this, we both agree that this is probably one that is perhaps the most common of the list here, which was referred to as nothing is clarified, meaning that unclear stuff is copied into projects or next actions list, and the GTDer would not understand why he or she is not attracted to their lists.

Morten: Yeah, so, so this is so classical. This is when I— because, you know, both Lars and I are certified GTD coaches and we meet a lot of people who want to get good at their GTD practice. And one thing that's common, I've seen it in all my years as a coach, this is the most common mistake you can do as a GTDer. You take unclear stuff from your inbox and just drag it somewhere and hope, and you don't clarify, just organize it. You just skip clarify and And if you do that, what happens with your attraction to this list.

Lars: Lars? No, but I see this so frequently as well that when you look at those lists and you may be when you're clearing out your inboxes with the best of intentions and you're just moving it over to a project or a list of next actions, it's so obvious in that moment that of course this is what you have to do and this is what needs to get done. This is where we're heading. And then when you're switching to work mode and trying to get some work done, you pick up your lists and you have, you know, budget on your list and it's like, forward project X. Yeah, exactly. So, so, so that, that's just what happens that when you have those lists with unclear stuff on it, you will tend to, tend to skip that and not, not get those things done. So thinking things through, but also capturing what you decided on as a next action, as a project, get that stuff on your list. It will make your list so much more attractive. And really, you know, one of the questions that I really appreciated when we did my virtual coaching certification was to keep asking people whether they are attracted or repelled from their lists. That was such an interesting question that really made people reflect. So maybe for the listeners out there, look at your list. Are they attracting you or repelling you?

Morten: Yeah. And what happens is that when you put something that's unclear on your list, you haven't clarified it, you have to think again. You looked at it and then you kind of skip the thinking process when you organized it and you just pull it on the list. And then when you're dumb and tired and you you can't, you know, that you're not attracted to it and you will procrastinate the thinking. So GTD is about using your brain when you have the brain power to think clearly and smart. Todd Brown, who's been a guest on in our last episode, the master trainer of, or one of the master trainers in the UK, he He once said something I really liked is that I like to make or I try to make good plans for the future me to have a good day or something like that of that effect. So you make plans for the future you to have good days so you don't have to think when you're really toast in your brain, you don't have any energy or you're, you know, you've burned your oil and you don't have anything. And instead of then procrastinate or go to your dark playground and Facebook or whatever is your dark playground. You can then go to your lists and your former you will present you with the options you've made. Sorry, the options you have for making meaningful progression on important projects you have. Without thinking, you will give your future you, "Ah, I can choose this. Oh, thank you, former me. Thank you for making a good plan that I, the stupid me, now can.

Lars: Do.".

Morten: I think maybe this is— I will make a note because I made a white paper some years back about the use of time, when you should clarify and when you should organize so that the more stupid you can execute on them. Do you think that is a good idea, Lars? Yeah, absolutely. Link in the show notes?

Lars: Absolutely. Yeah, for sure.

Morten: I will do that right.

Lars: Now. So that's something as we record.

Morten: Exactly. Nothing is clarified. What anything? To add to this?

Lars: No, I think we, we covered it pretty well, but it, it really is, you know, getting, making sure you have the right list and the right stuff on those lists, referring back to what we talked about earlier and making, making sure that you have some good next actions on there, reflecting on why it's stuck there. Coming back to lists or maybe different perspectives on your list. One of the lists that I have in my system right now is more of a a search query is to highlight next actions to me that have been on my lists for longer than a certain amount of days or, yeah, I think a certain number of days that I've set it up as to highlight to me.

Morten: Kind of like a smelly list.

Lars: It starts to smell. Yeah, it's sort of to help me create because it can be right that these things are there, that they should still be there, but it could also be that you know, maybe they have lost, lost, I've lost interest in them, or maybe that, you know, something has happened so it's really not the next action anymore on that list. Or, you know, just to help me be aware that, that some of these might have gone stale. So, so, and I, I don't, I don't put things on my list that are not clarified, but maybe, you know, things change.

Morten: Indeed they do. So should we move on to the.

Lars: Last Let's do the last one. So the last one is that the projects list is incomplete because we, you know, when you start off with GTD, you identify certain things to be projects, but as attendees actually in the Level 2 seminars discover, there are often many more projects than they had initially identified as projects, or at least that's my experience. I'm guessing it is yours as well, Morten.

Morten: Definitely it.

Lars: Is.

Morten: The energy that is released when you have everything that is lurking in your brain on a list is enormous. The relief you get, the feeling of the full overview is something that few people who start with GTD get before they get an overview of their areas of responsibility. Often it starts there on the Level 2 seminars. We dig and find your levels, sorry, your areas of responsibility, both personal and professional. And then those areas will birth projects. You'll remember, oh yes, I have actually, the budget is my responsibility. I haven't done that yet. So maybe I should capture that as a project, make a next action, get moving on that. Whenever that is convenient. And that frees a lot of energy for people. I think you've seen the same, Lars.

Lars: Yes, exactly. And we see it in the Level 2 seminar where we ask people to write down the number of projects they have. Then we go through the different exercises with the areas of focus and responsibility. And we have some different perspectives and questions to see if we can find some more projects in there that aren't already on the list. List. And then at the end, we write down the number again. So how many projects do you have now? And often that number, of course, increases. So it is really often the case. And for me, I think, you know, some of it came from areas of responsibility, but some of it also came from, you know, people— not people, things in my old summer house that I needed to fix that I hadn't fixed. And I hadn't captured it on that list. I'd made maybe looked at it but quickly looked away. No, I didn't see it. I didn't see it. I'm moving this way. I'm doing something else. Um, so, so, so capturing those and really being honest about it and, and getting those on the list, maybe on the someday maybe list, maybe on an active project list, but getting all of the projects in there, that really was, uh, yeah, helpful for me.

Morten: Yeah, indeed, indeed. And, uh, the relief is, is palpable. It's— you can feel when you have everything captured, even if it is on a someday, maybe, or as David also referred to things that you don't want to do right now, it's like the shit I don't want to care about right now list. And, you know, freeing your mental energy by the nagging small projects that, you know, that you pass, you know, the door handle every day and you And that door handle has a mental copy in your brain going, oh, you haven't done me yet. You know, you must do, you must, you must do me. And you go, okay, shut up. I got better things to think about right now. You'd ruin my day now. And instead of letting that door handle ruin your day, then just write it down, clarify what it means to you, and then organize it in a place that makes sense to you if you want to do something about it or not.

Lars: Yeah, moving around and then that nothing is calling on you. That nothing is trying to grab your attention, that really, that you can really feel that. So yeah, get all those projects out there.

Morten: When I, I don't know if you met this, but when I meet people in the seminars or in coaching, when I say I have nothing in my brain now, right now, there's no thoughts in my brain right now than being here with you. And you see the, sometimes I get the the look of, yeah, really? I don't believe you. But really, when you get good at GTD, you have nothing in your brain except be in the present. And that is a very good place to be. But that is in, you know, life throws different things at you, everything from happiness to sorrow and everything in between. And if you're happy, you are more happy. If you're in sorrow, you're in more sorrow, but you move through the sorrow faster. That's my experience, because— and you will handle your sorrow better. We have a person we know in our life now who is going through grief and who tells that, well, this is— GTD helps me manage everything else in my life so that I can be in my grief, my sorrow. And really GTD helps you to be present in the moment wherever that is.

Lars: Yeah, I can certainly relate to that. I've been there as well. So I can certainly relate to that and getting all that stuff out and also to minimize these emotional responses that we have to something so you can, you know, get focused on getting things done and then be present with whatever you're doing, whether that's, you know, in a positive sense or in some cases, some sorrow as well.

Morten: So if all your projects are captured and clarified and you see something, you know, a big or small bump in the road that you need to renegotiate your commitments to people, it's so much easier when you have this overview. Call someone, say, I'm sorry, this project has to go on hold because this happened. Or just for your personal self, move things from active project to someday maybe or projects on hold, whatever your what the categories are for projects, and then just move it out of focus and then refocus on the most important things. Make sure that the electricity bill is paid, you're not evicted, whatever you need to focus on. And to not use your head for this is so valuable. I agree. Okay, this has been a fun episode. I hope that our listeners Liked it, and I hope you covered some good stuff. Are we ready for you to take us out, Lars, or do you have some final comments?

Lars: So yeah, like, like you said, I hope this has been valuable for, for people listening. Um, and as always, be sure to send us an email if you have some input or any thoughts.

Morten: And rate us on iTunes, we love.

Lars: That. Um, and yes, as usual, we always wrap up these episodes by reminding you to head on over to gtdnordic.com where you can find links to the country websites for each of the Nordic countries, and from there you can find articles articles about GTD, links to the newsletters, groups on social media where natives from each of the countries discuss GTD. And of course, you can find all of our offerings there regarding speeches, coaching, and seminars, both the virtual and the physical. And for those outside the Nordics, that's gettingthingsdone.com. So be sure to let us know if this was helpful for you. We always love to hear from people, feedback, ideas for future episodes. Let us know by email. It's in the show notes, podcast@gcdnordic.dk.

Morten: Well, thank you for listening, and, uh, stay safe and stay productive until next time.

Lars: Bye-bye, everybody.

Morten: Bye-bye.