32. Why each part of GTD matters

Transcript

Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.

Morten: Hi and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from GTD Nordic. I am still Morten Røvik, and I'm still here with my friend and colleague Lars Rothschild Henriksen. Hello Lars.

Lars: Hi Morten, happy to be back and looking forward to talking through today's topic with you. If you are new to this podcast. Our goal is to support you in using the GTD methodology to clear your mind and stay present with whatever you're doing. And we really hope that you find these episodes valuable and you can implement them in your life regardless of how experienced you are using GTD. If you want a refresher or learn more about the basics of GTD, we recommend you go back and listen to episodes 1 through 6.

Morten: Yep, we do recommend that. And today's topic is why each part of GTD matters. And we have comprised some questions that we would like to answer. Isn't that so, Lars?

Lars: Yeah, that's true. So based on a lot of the normal pushback or feedback that we get when we, for example, deliver a GTD speech in companies, there are some common questions or common questions that arise in the participants' minds on how to do this, why should I do this, why do I need this, etc. And we thought this might be valuable to walk through some of these questions. And hopefully these will be helpful for our listeners, both with regards to their own GTD practice. Maybe some steps could use a bit of refreshing in their systems, but also maybe to explain to people around them why they're using GTD, why it matters when they do each of these elements of GTD. So that's the topic of today's podcast.

Morten: Indeed. And the first question we've written down is, why would I write even the small stuff down? Why? Why is that, Lars?

Lars: Why would I do that? Well, it's, you know, when I started using GCD, that was, you know, really the first step for me. Of course, it is the first step, but really the first thing that I started to implement was really to start writing things down. And one of the things that I noted was really the, I saw other people had already picked up this habit, but I started really— when you really start to implement GTD and really get into the weeds and writing everything down, it really makes a big difference. And part of it comes back to just how your brain works. It really doesn't— the part of the brain that holds these kinds of information doesn't really understand complexity or whether it's relevant to be aware of right now or how much time it takes. Yeah, exactly. So that just shows up, and often it shows up at random times as well. So writing the big things down, that seems like maybe the natural approach for people that they, you know, I'm a smart person, I do smart stuff, complex stuff, I'll write the big stuff down. Obviously, I don't need to write the small stuff down because I'm a smart human being. But in that case, you know, the small stuff can really, really take up so much of your attention. You know, sitting in meetings and, you know, cat food pops into your head again and again because you really have to remember to buy that. On the way home. Really getting the small stuff out is just necessary. That's just how your brain works. That's what I would say at least. What would you say?

Morten: No, I totally agree with this. But in addition, it's like you don't need to rethink the small stuff. You have a strange sound in your car. You think, I need to figure out what this strange sound is. And if you then at the next convenient stop, you write that down, strange sound in the car, you don't have to rethink that and revisit that thought more than one time because then you have it captured. You can do something about it. And it boils down back to the magical number 7 ± 2 of George Armitage Miller's famous scientific research program where he tried to find out how many things can you have in your head at the same time of complex matters. And he says that the more things you have in there, you can have between 5 and 9. And newer research, which is not as humanly optimistically, says that the magical number is 4. So if you have 4 things in your head, you can't have anything more than 4 things in your short-term memory. And And if something more comes in, something falls out. And as you mentioned, your brain doesn't have that capacity of remembering this is important, this is not important. So you might forget 2 milks, or you might remember 2 milks on your way home, but you will forget the contract you need to sign before you leave your office, which is really the important things you need to do. The most present with nothing on your mind, you really have to empty it fully or as full as it can be, fully as it can be, so that you are the most present in the moment.

Lars: Yeah. And I also seem to remember David at one point mentioning that if you keep stuff in your head, it'll take more or less of your attention than it deserves. It never gets the right amount of attention. You'll tend to forget things, i.e., less attention than it deserved or more attention that you you will keep reminding yourself about these things, about cat food or the contract or whatever it might be in your world. So getting all that stuff down into a trusted system is really key.

Morten: It is indeed. So should we move on to the next.

Lars: Question?

Morten: Yeah, let's do that. Who needs an inbox? I know where my stuff is.

Lars: I hear that a lot. I kind of maybe wrote that as this was maybe last minus 12 years reading GTD for the first time, looking at that part of the book and saying that I needed to set up an inbox, a physical inbox at home. Yeah, but, but it really made, made a big difference having that specific place where things would end up. And I, I would have a tendency, you know, I'm trained as a graduate engineer in software systems engineering. I thought my whole life was basically digital. Why would I need a physical inbox? I had a small apartment, no way I would spend, spend any or waste any desktop space for just that. But, you know, having that one place just makes sure that your, you know, your home is not an inbox. That's what it was before. There were anyway sort of ad hoc inboxes scattered around my apartment that I would, you know, put things in one location. The mail from the mailbox would go on one part of the shelves, and there were some notes that I would, you know, put on the desk somewhere. And, you know, having this, putting all that stuff in one place just gave some kind of peace of mind, I think, you know, trusting that I had captured everything that I needed to capture. And my brain would kind of stop scanning around, always looking for stuff. It would, of course, pick it up, but I wouldn't be reminded about the same things all the time when I walked around the apartment or, God forbid, down towards the basement, the basement that had to be cleaned and, you know, all that stuff. So, yeah, having an inbox really made a big difference both at home and at work.

Morten: And if you use the inbox correctly so that you don't have the last couple of centimeters still untouched in a couple of weeks, but if you clear off and organize them, the content of the inbox on a regular basis, it becomes a trusted place where you and the people around you can put stuff they want or you want something done about. And I love the example of, you know, your ink cartridges are on your home printer is empty and you have to buy new ones. And you go to the shop and you don't remember your printer model. You don't remember, you know, the, you remember maybe the color, but you don't remember, you know, how did the cartridges look. But if you put it in your ink tray or, and then processes, clarifying it into your, into your system, it will be on your errands list with maybe the printer number and, and, you know, the cartridge number or a photo of the cartridge number, what you— that's maybe even faster. So when you go to the shop, you actually can buy that thing. And it makes a huge difference on, on, you know, feeling that you are you're moving elegantly throughout the day to have a place to put them, put things. And it actually happens, things after that. So I remember my spouse a few years back, my ex-wife, she put a door handle there. That was a clear message that I should really go to the hardware store and get some new screws to get our handle fixed to the door again. Kind of like a good way of talking. So that, that, that is, would be my, my added to this.

Lars: So yeah, and I remember it from my, my son as well, you know, when, when he was growing up and I was working on becoming a GTD trainer. Always, you know, he had some, some different toys. Some of them needed batteries. Batteries would run out. I might have an opinion on whether we should add new batteries to some of them, but at least, you know, it was an easy thing to pick up, throw in the inbox. I know I would get to that later so we could still, you know, play around with the other stuff and just again, stay present.

Morten: Good. So on to the next question. I know what needs to happen to the things on my list. I don't need to clarify.

Lars: Them. Yeah, because that's really a classic one that people can show up to a speech and they have their to-do list and think that that's a good system for them, but not knowing there's a lot of value to clarifying and organizing. So having that list and it just says mom and ad campaign and budget. I mean, a line on my list that just says budget, I would never move on. It would just be standing there looking at me and I would look at it and I would move on to the next thing. But so for those of you listening from Denmark, you might have seen my most recent post on the website explaining my last trip to the recycling station. So we just moved into a new apartment. I was heading to the recycling station. All the stuff was organized and ready to go into the different boxes or containers at the recycling station. But there was one bag there that was mixed. There was a mix of stuff in there that had not been, been moved around. And I was heading out the door, I was ready to go. I looked at that bag, I picked up the other stuff and ran with it. So again, just showing how much value there is to having clarified and organized so you don't have to stop and think things through when you need to move on.

Morten: Exactly. And this is by far the one thing I see that my coaching clients have problems with. You know, to clarify, you take something that is more or less clear to you. You think you know, you know, somewhat what you need to do, and you take that and you put it on your list. You jump, you jump the clarify next action process, and then people come and say, I don't know why GTD doesn't work for me. And then when we look at it, because you haven't clarified. Well, do I need to do that? Yes. Because if you don't, you will put unclear stuff on your list and you will procrastinate them at some point because your brain has a very fine-tuned bullshit filter. If you haven't clarified, the brain will say, you don't know what to do here. I give you now procrastination. You are welcome. So, and so, but if you clarify and really down at the next action level, physical, visible next action where you have everything you need, you will, you don't need to think. So if you're a little tired or where you're a little brain dead after a long day, you can still be productive, moving stuff forward without thinking. And the idea here, I remember Todd Brown telling me one time is that he He makes plans for his future self to be happy. So you clarify and organize for the future you to say, oh, thank you. I don't need to think, I just have to.

Lars: Do. Yeah, that's a nice way to say it.

Morten: Do you have anything to add on this?

Lars: No, but I think that moves us, you know, the next one on the list also relates pretty close to this, which is a list of next actions. Come on, my good old to-do list works just fine. And again, having connected both the Clarify and the Organize steps, so thinking things through, I completely agree with you that this really is a common question, and the Clarify step is, is so important, especially in this day and age where things move as fast as they do. Capture that decision once you've made that decision on the next actions, be sure to store that to make it more easy for you to move forward on things. And I clearly remember this as well from, from the early days of GTD, having to understand the value of storing that decision and making that the list to work from rather than just budget. But, you know, coming, you know, giving this a try and really experiencing this for myself really made such a big difference in really getting things done, not procrastinating. I used to be an expert at procrastinating. And it's really difficult to procrastinate when you have a list of next actions. When it's, well, send an email to Morten about the ad campaign. Well, I can do that. If it's it again, if it's a budget, I could quickly skip that and maybe check the news again or LinkedIn or Facebook.

Morten: Respond to email, even though it's not too many sections.

Lars: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Morten: No, I'm totally with you. This next question is also— could be related to this. And also said, I have too much to do already. Why should I spend time on learning GTD? They said, I have Many times when I've done my seminars and some of my keynotes, people come up to me and they talk to me after or during, and they say, really, I have really too much to do. I don't have bandwidth to learn something new. And what would you answer such a.

Lars: Statement? Well, I get this a lot as well, especially when we talk through the first 3 steps, capture, clarify, and organize. But also when we talk about 3 different types of work. So really trying to communicate to people that this takes work upfront. They're totally right. And I don't want to hide that fact. I want to make it very clear to them that this takes time so that they know that if they want to try out some of the things that we recommend, that they should know that this investment in time is there. But it certainly makes sense. And we know that from, you know, years of experience, millions of people using this across the world, that this does make sense. We know it's it again from studies as well, showing how much time people actually gain even though they maybe spend 30 to 90 minutes clarifying and organizing their stuff that has shown up during a day. It still makes them more productive in the end.

Morten: And it is common sense. If you look at the model of GTD, the control and perspective parts of GTD, it really makes good sense. Common sensical. I think David Allen used to say something like, everybody recognizes common sense when it kisses you on the forehead, but you need to be kissed in the forehead by understanding this to be able to then say, "Ah, okay, I understand." But when you have too much to do, it's not a good place to learn GTD. It's like I say that when you have too little to do or too much to do, this is the the worst place to be when learning GTD. But there is just one way that will give you back an overview and control if you have too much to do, is that it's true. You must go through everything. You need to, you know, you can't skip anything. You have to record everything. You have to capture everything and then clarify and organize and get an overview of everything. And some of the things I've met people say is that I thought I had really a lot to do, but when I captured it, clarified, and organized it, I understood that the reason I felt like that was because it was in my head. I didn't have the overview. I didn't have the feeling of control. And because I didn't have the overview and the feeling of control, I felt anxious. It was just too much. And when I do my seminars, I sometimes ask people, For example, if you have two people working in a department going to their boss and Candidate A says, I have too much to do. I just have too much to do and it's just way too much. And the boss says, what? What do you have? And he says, I don't know. It's just too much. And then Candidate B goes, I have too much to do. I really have too much to do. And the boss asks again, then what do you have to do? And well, I have this project. This is my responsibility and I have these projects here. And these projects here, and as you can see, there is not enough hours a day to get through this. What should go? And it's so much easier for the boss to say, well, you can let go of this, this, this, and this. You can put this on the back burner. This is something maybe, this is maybe a project on hold, and to then come back to an equilibrium where you feel you can manage your work. It's not too much to do. It's, you know, find the balance of the right amount to.

Lars: Do. Exactly. And you're reminding me of work that I'm doing with a coaching client right now. So I've worked with her a number of times this year, and one time there was a big project that really took up a lot of her attention. So we zoomed in on that. We didn't even use the natural planning model. We just started to empty her, you know, your brain about that specific project. So we wrote things down and said, so is there anything else? Is there anything else? Is there anything else? And The look on her face when she realized that there was nothing else relating to that project was, you know, that relief that was just so clearly visible. It really was a good reminder for me as well on the value of really getting all that stuff out.

Morten: And it is, if it is in your head, it takes more space than it needs to. So if you get it out, you will be able to lower your shoulders, you get an overview and you feel more in control.

Lars: Control.

Morten: And there are few feelings that are better than to feel that you are in control of your work. If you lost your control, you are in not a very good place. And GTD gives you the tools to get into that control feeling again. Well, you can't control faith, you can't control your health, you can't control the, you know, the people around you, but you can control how you think about your commitments. And that's the only thing you can control in this world. Should we move on to the next one?

Lars: Let's try the next one. So that relates to step number 4 about reflecting and specifically zooming in on the weekly review thing. I don't have time for that. I need to get things done.

Morten: That is also a classic one.

Lars: It really is. How would you respond to that one?

Morten: Well, you need to get things done, but how do you know you're doing the right things? Things? How do you know that you're getting the right things done? And the only way to know that you are doing the right things is to get an overview of everything you could do at any given point in time and then pick after. But to get to that weekly— sorry, to get to that point where you have the overview of everything you need to do, you need to capture everything, clarify it, organize it, and reflect on it on a regular basis to maintain that feeling of control.. So if you want to get the right stuff done, you can't skip weekly review. I think David Allen said at some point, if you don't do a weekly review, you don't do GTD. And I think that is very, very true, even though it's hard for some people. And I admit sometimes it's not as easy as— and I've been doing this for how many years? Sometimes I struggle also to find the energy and the focus to do a weekly review. But I know after I've done this, I have a unbeatable feeling of being in control of my world. And I know that the week to come, I will do more of the right stuff. I will not forget something important. Everything is under control. So, anything you would add to that?

Lars: You have some— No, you pretty much described what I would say as well. Taking the time to do this can be a challenge. There's a lot of stuff to get done, stopping, and it can feel like you're just looking at your work rather than doing anything, but it really is so, so valuable. And like you say, it, you know, it's sometimes it can be a challenge to get done. And sometimes, you know, actually earlier today, we're recording this on a Thursday, I have my reviews on Friday. I did mine earlier because I had a look at my list, my inboxes were empty. I did not feel sure on what I would engage with right now, what was the right thing for me to do. So I did a weekly review.

Morten: I'm happy because you are more here in this call.

Lars: I am. And no, but I went through everything, went through my list, went through my projects, you know, looked at what I could be doing relating to, to the longer-term goals that we had, and really thought things through. I flagged a few things, got a few things done before the podcast, and I know what I'm doing after the podcast.

Morten: Good. Now, this is as taken from the textbook. This is, you know, classical good behavior is if If you feel that you don't have the overview and the feeling of control, do a weekly review or do a short review. Just look, look through everything so that your shoulders go back in the right place. So you know that what you're focusing on right now is the right things. Which leads us to the last question on our list here is picking the right things on my list. I just go by priority. No need for limiting criteria or horizons for essence of focus.

Lars: How will you respond to that? Well, I think for at least many of the people that I come across, they really feel busy or really are really busy right now. So a lot of their work is simply putting out fires and they will put out one. And as they are putting that one out, they had— then the new one is starting at the other end of the office and then they have to run towards that one. So I get why initially this might might seem like additional complexity in figuring out what the right thing is to do. But it really, getting to the right place and working from those limiting criteria, understanding your horizons of focus, understanding the freeform support.

Morten: That's the opposite of trying to walk barefoot on very hot asphalt, where you are jumping, alternate your feet for, don't burn yourself because it's so hot under your feet.

Lars: Close to explosion. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I mean, if, if you were, you know, looking at your, your lists but you have a deadline in 2 hours, you probably know what the right thing is to do. But part of doing GTD is getting to a good place where you have a good overview, you can work on the right things at the right time, and that's where these models really come into play. So initially, I, I think it might have been one of those steps that I didn't really understand that well in the beginning, but, you know, progressing with my, my own travel or journey with GTD, this, this has become really, really important.

Morten: And then this makes me always, I wouldn't say snicker, but it's kind of like, hmm, I just go by priority. This is, I choose by priorities and there is no need for the horizon to focus. And this is how you know your priority. If you don't know what's important to you, how can you prioritize? This horizon focus model is of course the model where we start on the top with purpose, values and principles. And then a vision statement on how it looks when you are living your purpose, values, and principles. And then long-term goals, 12 to 24 months from now. And then your areas of responsibility. If you don't know what your areas of responsibility is, really, how can you prioritize anything? How can you say, I will choose between this and that? That. If you don't know what you are measured on, what you feel you should be measuring yourself on. This is a little— I hear this also, but it is kind of like a paradox. It's just a paradox as time management. You cannot manage time. It's not possible. Time is a constant. We are in it all the time. We can't escape it and we can't manage manage it. The only thing you can manage is your focus and your concentration on what needs to have your attention right now. So, well, anything to add to this.

Lars: My little rant there? No, I think we covered pretty much all of these. These are really common questions that we come across, and we thought it was valuable to maybe walk through these, and hopefully they gave you some food for thought or maybe some helpful explanations if you have caught colleagues that are wondering why you would be working with using the GCD system.

Morten: Yes, indeed. And this episode has become a little longer than normal, which is by request also. People ask us, can you make a little longer episodes? Because I don't know why, but maybe their commute is longer, even though I don't understand that there's not a lot of people commuting these days, but maybe they have a lot of housework to do. So we are happy to oblige every now and then with a longer episode. So for those of you who want interested is, here you go.

Lars: Um, will you take us out, Lars? Certainly. So as usual, if you want more information and you are in the Nordics, gcdnordic.com is the place to go. From the website, you will find links to all the country websites in each of the Nordic countries, and on those you can find more articles about GTD. You can find the newsletters, you can find links to the groups on social media where GTDers discuss methodology tools, etc. And of course, also our offerings, including the virtual ones that are popular these days. And as always, we really appreciate if you like the episodes, if you have any questions or any feedback on what to talk about next time, be sure to send us an email podcast@gtdnordic.dk. It's in the show notes as well. And if you appreciate it, we really appreciate if you could rate us on iTunes or share this podcast with with a colleague.

Morten: It really helps us out. Yes, thank you. And until next time, stay productive and stay safe.

Lars: Bye-bye, everybody. Bye-bye.