29. GTD and Creativity with Karl Ivar Refseth

Transcript

Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.

Morten: Welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from GTD Nordic. I'm Morten Røvik, and I'm here as always with my friend and colleague Lars Schrottskjild Hendriksen. Hello, Lars.

Lars: Hi, Morten. Happy to be back and looking forward to this episode. I have a lot of questions for our guests today, and I'm sure this will be a lot of fun. If you are new to this podcast, our goal is to support you in using GTD, learning more about different aspects of the methodology, and in the end, hopefully helping you to become an even better GTDer, better at staying present with whatever you're doing at work or at home. And we really hope that you find these episodes valuable regardless of your experience with GTD. And if you want a refresher or learn more about the basics of GTD, we suggest you go back and listen to episodes 1 through 6. Now today we have a very special.

C: Guest with us who knows a lot.

Lars: About GTD and creativity. And I will leave it to Morten to pronounce his name as he is from Norway.

Morten: Yes, you're absolutely right that we have Carl Ivar Deffseth with us today and he will be talking about GTD and creativity as you mentioned. He is a very creative and interesting person who has had a very good and interesting journey learning GTD. And I am happy to, to introduce him. As our guest. I'm looking forward to, to this interview.

Lars: Me too.

D: And now our special guest.

Morten: Welcome, Carl Levi, and I'm happy to have you with us. You are a Norwegian and you live in Berlin, but tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do.

D: Hello, both of you. I'm so happy to and proud and humbled to be here, and to thank you so much for inviting me. So, uh, who I am: I come from the Norwegian countryside close to Lillehammer, grew up there, and the love of music brought me to Berlin. So I've now been living here for 15 years, and I work as a musician, and I do seminars for kids, and I also have a blog in Norwegian for people who want to learn about improvisation. I also am a certified GTD trainer and coach and specialized on the creative people. So as a creative person, as a musician, I play in different bands. There's one wonderful indie rock band called The No Twist, a singer-songwriter called Giesbert Jukniphausen, a DJ called Ausid Pauli, and a lot of other people I adore, I love playing with. So I have a lot of different things I do and I absolutely love it. So that's a little bit about me.

Morten: Thank you. And you're a father as well, I think?

D: Yes, I have the most beautiful daughter in the whole world, so I'm very, very proud and very, very happy to be here.

Morten: Yes, good, good. And we are of course all interested in understanding how you, you met GTD, but could you please tell us a little of your backstory before GTD. What was your life like before?

C: Haha.

Morten: Yeah.

D: You know, when I was a kid, my mother used to make many— knit. My mother knitted a lot and made many wonderful clothes for me. But there was one very important thing that she needed to do for each piece of clothing. That was she had to make a note and sew it into the into the clothing where it stands, I love my sweater very much, but I'm a little bit forgetful. So if you should find this sweater, please call, and then there was a number of, and I must admit the phone called quite a few times because I forgot things a lot. And I'm still very forgetful. And my life before GTD also was partially, in time, some parts of my life, for instance, the first year in Berlin, very, very chaotic. And I had a very loving, nice neighbor, Flo. He actually noticed every flight I would have home to Norway because he knew 3, 4 hours before the flight I would run around totally in panic looking for toothbrush, passport, Vibraphone mallets, whatever I might need. So he would come up and help me. So he gave me the suitable name Chaos Karl. And this flat where I was running around, you know, it was one room and I don't, I'm not kidding with you. Most of the room were just one big pile of stuff which contained anything. On the one side of the room, it would be a mattress. I slept there and then on the other side, there was a sofa where I can sit and in the middle there was this huge pile and it would contain anything. This pile also in many ways kind of, yeah, was like some kind of concrete showing of how my life was at that time. I mean, I got things done, but I didn't actually get to practice the things that actually moved me forward. And I had a lot of cool band projects, but it wasn't like the things I really, really wanted to do the most. And I missed a lot of opportunities, you know, to get to get new concerts, to apply for fundings because I just forgot it. And I was constantly like in this firefighting mode. But the worst thing for me at least is just I— this was an unconscious part. My brain unconsciously sought this situation. So yeah, but I mean, it was good, but it was kind of life with a lot of brakes on.

Morten: And how did you stumble upon GTD?

D: Yeah, this is a very good friend and colleague of mine in Norway. He's called Vidar Sæther. I admire him a lot. He's, he's a wonderful jazz saxophone player. He's an amazing teacher. I learned so much from him. He lives up in Ålesund. And we used to work together on summer, summer camps for kids. And one evening when we sat down, he like looked at me and said, "Hey, Kalle, you don't seem to be like, you seem to be stressed out. You don't seem to be very happy." And after like giving it some thought, I had to admit, yeah, he's right. And so then he presented me to GTD and said, "Maybe this could be something for you." And we also were starting up a new project, which turned into this blog that I just, that I talked about in the beginning of the podcast. And he said, like, if we're gonna work together on this blog, I suggest we use GTD as a language also on this blog. So he helped me get started with it. And yeah, it immediately helped me. I started to remember things and, you know, Florian, my good friend, he was kind of, confused because when he came up to help me before taking this, you know, for my— before my flight, I was like greeting him in the doorway with ready-packed suitcase and asked if we should grab a coffee before. So, and yeah, but you know, learning GTD, that was 13 years ago, and learning GTD is like, it's just like learning an instrument or learning some kind of art, and it's— it never stops. So it totally constantly got me into new, exciting levels of relaxed, stress-free control. And all of a sudden I stopped, I started quitting in a lot of my projects and I like asking me, okay, what do I really want to do? And started a lot of new projects. I quit the summer camp work that I used to do with Vida and started my own seminar with kids. Which I now have done like 300 or 400 times for the Norwegian elementary schools. And, um, and, um, yeah. And also I actually also brought me into 2 years of very intense therapy because I realized there were things that was in the way for me also as an artist. And, um, and, you know, looking back, I mean, I started, uh, becoming the certification as a GTD trainer beginning of 2008. And that was also the beginning of yet another level and another very exciting learning journey. And then one year ago when I was halfway through the coaching certification, I thought I've gotten it, but, uh, I should have known. I mean, one year now after another year of studies, I will, I'm starting to learn more and more. And, um, so I get just more humble. It's just as like learning an instrument. It never stops. And that's one of the things I like about it.

Morten: David Allen would say something that you don't know what you don't know.

D: Yeah, you're absolutely right. Absolutely right. And, uh, you know, you haven't, you don't know how it's like if the bathroom fan, uh, suddenly turns off, if you never experienced, like you lived your own whole life with a bathroom fan on all the time, like I did.

Morten: Um, so, um, not literally, but yeah.

D: You'Re right. Yeah.

Lars: And I love how you're, you know, I always love talking GTD with creative people because it is not really where I came from, but I always highlight creativity as one of the first examples of what GTD can do for others in my speeches. And with my background as an SAP consultant, enterprise software, it really was not my motivation for learning this. But I don't know how it helped me at the time, but I clearly do remember situations where I came up with creative ways ways to adapt the software for our clients, and people were impressed.

C: And I also remember the stream of.

Lars: Ideas that suddenly started to show up as I started to get things out of my head and into a system. So obviously, your background is different from mine. How has GTD helped your creativity or other creatives that you've worked with?

D: I would say, you know, I'm just starting out as a GTD coach and a GTD trainer. And I met a few, and I'm now at the moment also working with a few creative people. So, but the strongest experience is my own and how it's helped me. It's helped me in many, many different ways. It's a lot more easy to get up with new ideas, to compose. It's a lot more easy to practice because you don't get distracted by all kinds of thoughts. It's much easier for me just to lose myself completely in my practicing room when I want to compose a new song, or if I want to work on— to prepare for a concert. I— when I start composing, I— it's very easy to get immediately into ideas that really bring me forward, because by help of the capture, clarify, and organize step in GTD, I have a constantly library of any cool ideas that I've like been capturing throughout the years. And like we say, you never know when ideas will come, and that's also of course for ideas for things you want to create. No matter if it's a sculpture, if it's a painting, or if it's a— you want to choreograph a dance or compose some music like what I'm doing. But so when I come to my space or when I just decide to compose wherever it is, I have a lot of huge database of ideas and I have an own composition project list with desired outcomes for each composition and a next action for that, which brings.

Morten: Me immediately I'm reminded of one American singer-songwriter who David Allen has done some work with. He, he, he is quoted saying, before I, I started 100 songs every year, now I finish 100 songs every year. Can you relate to that?

D: Yeah, yeah. Of course. Um, but I would say the price I pay by finishing 100 songs is now way, way less than the price I would pay to finish 100 songs before DTD. So, and that, that is also what I see with my coaching clients that, okay, they get very much stuff done, many of them, but they pay a high price. And that leads sometimes to burnout, sometimes to more worse disease, or sometimes that they stop creating because the body just can't do it anymore. So, uh, it's, that's, yeah, like I said in the intro, I, my life before GTD was as if I would have a lot of brakes on and the better I get with GTD, the, more I can release all those brakes. And like, it's— everything gets a lot easier. I mean, I still get to— I still have to do the work, I still have to compose, I still have to practice, I still have to do the concert, but it's a lot more easy. And I mean, that brings me to another huge advantage for me as a creative artist when I want to go on stage. One of my Horizon 4 visions, if my life would be a wild success, where would I like to be in maybe 5 to 7 years, horizons of focus, it stands: I want to give millions of people very, very high-quality music experiences that they will keep on in their hearts for the rest of their lives. That's like one of the things I want to achieve. And in order to do that, when I want to go on stage, I need to be 1000% into the music when I go on stage, like listening, listening, and keeping the progress of the music in the back of my head, because I'm also an improvising musician. So I need to have the composition focus, composer's focus all the time. And, um, to dive into that intense focus, it's, if I haven't done a weekly review or haven't clarified and organized and captured the stuff and got it out of my head, it's very difficult for me to get into that state. So of course I need to practice to prepare for the concert, but very often again and again, I experienced when I, the day of the concert, when I sit, like if I have like 5 hours in the train, getting there, I'm best served at least 2 of those hours doing a thorough weekly review. Then it's much more easier for me to perform on the level I always try to perform on.

Morten: And then it's— this is what we call, or at least I call, you know, the lack of self-interruption frees up mental space so that you don't have to remind yourself about that email you didn't write or, you know, that phone call you should take or this worry you have for something. If all of that is handled in a good manner, it doesn't move into your brain when you're trying to be present in the moment.

D: So there's a few things that lie to my heart that I would really like to communicate on this podcast. And that is one of the impressions I got when I learned GTD was like, if you read the book, there's a lot of examples from kind of everyday at the office, people, and a lot of people using GTD are also like in this classic office his life. And I also got kind of that impression also, well, GTD isn't maybe not so much for me as a creative person. And that's maybe the most important thing I want to like, get off my— yeah, to tell you on this podcast. I mean, GTD was developed based on just asking, how do our brains work? I mean, and it's like, and how do we work as human beings? And that's, so it doesn't, of course, a lot of examples are taken from that kind of professions I just mentioned, but I mean, it really doesn't matter what you do and it really doesn't matter how you are as a person or how you think. It can help you. So it's just, of course, it's a matter of taste. It's not for everyone, but it's definitely for all our creative, chaotic people as well. Definitely.

C: Very, very good point. And maybe those out there who know creatives who might benefit from this will have the ability now to share this episode, and hopefully they can maybe convince some others to gain the benefits that you've seen in this. Always when we interview people for this podcast, we always ask for any tips they might have, tools that they use, and for you, I'm especially interested in hearing what tools you or other creatives might highlight when it comes to GCD.

D: I think for me, at least as a musician, ability to capture audio is a very important tool for me. Like, so I have a voice recorder either on my smartphone or a standalone voice recorder that only wants to record voice and nothing else. It doesn't bling or beep or tell me, hey, check out Facebook, man. It just says, what do you want to record? And then I can record whatever. And, and, and then another important tool for me is also a very well-functioning reference system. Where I can get any idea or any notes, any musical notes when I need them. When I get on tour with Nordwist, I want to pick up on all my notes and ideas about Nordwist. And the next day when I play, if I get to play a duo concert with Gisbert, I want to get into that and see, okay, what was the last setlist? Which tunes did we play? Which thoughts did I have towards those tunes? Very quickly achieve it to have a—.

Morten: So this will be kind of like an agenda for no twists.

D: Yeah, I do. I use— I have three, uh, I have, yeah, yeah, I have two categories of agendas. I have the classic agendas like other, like for people that you regularly work with and, and like kind of meetings and stuff. But I also have a rehearsal agenda. So like next time I rehearse with this band, next I rehearse with that band, I want to like mention those things So, but I mean, that's good. I mean, I think, I think there's no particular tool. It's more about, I think, I think the hottest tip I can get is like, try to get the grip of the methodology, try to get as good system understanding as you can. For instance, start reading chapter 1 through 3 of the book. And then ask yourself, how can I tweak this to make it suit how I think and how I work and what my needs are? And then of course I might need an agenda list for rehearsals maybe, and I would need a database to keep track of my ideas. And maybe you want like, okay, A lot of other people want a computer list, calls list. Maybe you would like to create a creativity next actions list. Maybe you would like to create some, there may be cool bands I wanna create lists. And maybe you'd like to, if you need to book assignments with your band, maybe you should check out the tickler systems and waiting for and checklists. Yeah, and checklists, definitely checklists. Next time I'm going to plan a concert tour, which things to think about.

Morten: So I mean, can I just ask you, do you use checklists for preparing to concerts, like packing lists?

D: Yes, definitely.

Morten: I have like a packing list, packing lists.

D: I have prepared for concerts checklists, divided them to very small notes. I use Evernote, but that's just my personal preference. You can use whatever. But then I like have very small notes, like a separate checklist for packing for a concert, musical stuff I need, practical stuff, because I'm extremely forgetful. I'm Mr. Forgetful myself, so I need, I need all those checklists so I just can, you know, I don't like, oh, vibraphone, yeah, I got it, okay, cool, mallets, yeah, okay, good. I just, I pack and then I like use a few minutes to run through my checklist.

Morten: Oh yeah, I forgot this chord, I forgot this.

D: And you know, you know, when you get there on the concert and you stay there and play and all of a sudden the chord that brings all your mallets together, like that's my instrument, it breaks And then you stand there and I mean there are 500 people listening to you and you can't perform because you miss this very small chord. And it's, it's just a very short thing on the checklist. It takes 2 seconds to get it out of the place where I leave it in the rehearsal space, but it's so essential. So there are so many small details, but, and, and TDD helps me not to focus on those details and rather just stay happily lost in how, how do I want to do this B part of that cool composition I got up with yesterday? Like I need to have that in another, I think E minor is not as a good idea. I want to, like, I want to be there. I don't want to be with this chord or that rubber thing. Like, GTD is taking care of that. It's like a good personal assistant, a very, very, very good personal assistant.

Morten: Who wouldn't like a personal assistant?

D: Who wouldn't like an extremely well personal assistant who is with you 24/7 and works only for you?

Morten: I mean, that's what it is. That is a privilege and that is getting things done for you. Well, thank you so much for participating in our podcast, Kallevar. We get up to the— we're getting up to the 20-minute mark. We just passed it. So thank you again so much for participating. Thank you for your thoughts about GTD and creativity. And I hope you, the listener, has found this valuable. And Lars, will you take us out, please?

C: Sure.

D: Yeah.

C: Thank you also from my end, Kallevar. Really appreciate it. A lot of food for thought. I might have to re-listen to to this recording once it, once it airs. We always wrap up with letting you know where you can find more information. And for those of you in the Nordics, that's gtdnordic.com, where you can find links to all the country websites. And on each of those, you will find all the articles that are written about GTD, find the newsletter, links to Facebook groups, Meetup groups, all the offerings that we have, both virtual and physical. Right now. So have a look at those as well. And as mentioned, we really hope that you find these episodes valuable. And if you do, we really appreciate if you share the podcast with perhaps a creative colleague or maybe rate us on iTunes.

Morten: Yeah, well, thank you, Lars, for taking us out. And thank you, the listener. Until next time, stay productive and stay safe.

D: Bye-bye.

C: Bye, everyone.

D: Bye.

Morten: And if you both can take your headset off and put it to the microphone so I can try and make a clap.

D: Yeah.

Morten: Okay. Welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from GTD Nordic. I'm Morten Røvik, and I'm here with my friend and colleague Lars.

Lars: We have to re-clap because my fan.

C: Is running, and I don't know if.

Lars: You don't hear it now, but I.

C: Would imagine that you might be sad if you then heard the humming.

Morten: I had this perfect introduction.

Lars: I'm sorry, can we, we can re-clap?

D: Okay, we can clap.

Morten: Okay. Yes, Carl Ivar Jeffsseth is his name, and we are really happy to have him with us today. He is living in Berlin. He's Norwegian. And Carl Ivar, you're— no, what the heck am I doing now? Now we have to cut this. Because let me say, because you're not here, because we'll need the, the clap, and then we make— okay, okay. Um, so that is okay. I'll make a clap.