12. GTD for Teams

Transcript

Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.

Morten: Welcome to episode number 12 of the Getting Things Done podcast from the Digital Nordic. I'm Morten Røvik, and I'm here with my friend and colleague Lars Rothschild Henriksen. Hello, Lars.

Lars: Hi, Morten. Happy to be back for another episode, and I think this will be a good one. So for those of you listening for the first time, the goal of this podcast is really to support you in establishing the good habits in GTD to clear your mind and be more productive and less stressed. And I really hope that you find these episodes valuable regardless of your experience with GTD. And if you want a refresher or just if you're new to GTD, a good starting point are the first 6 episodes of the podcast. So if you haven't heard about GTD before, go back re-listen to those.

Morten: Good. Today's topic is GTD, or Getting Things Done for Teams. And why is this at all relevant, Loris?

Lars: Well, we all collaborate with people, so GTD is about personal productivity, obviously, but we're not living alone, we're not only working by ourselves, we have a lot of people that we connect with, we, we have clients that we need to to service. And we also, you know, when you start to really become good at GCD, you'll often find that you need to figure out ways to work with non-GCDers. So there are different, you know, ways of working. We all have our own styles of working, but it often is the case that when you become good at GCD, then you'll find that you need to figure out the right way to manage how you communicate and work with, with others. So as a starting point, Morten, why would we be doing this? Why is this important? Or what's your experience in this?

Morten: No, my experience is that if you are alone GTD, you will enhance your personal productivity and you will, as you said, maybe feel some friction towards your colleagues and coworkers who don't deliver at the same standard or the same level as you. And then when people do this together, they have some benefits on the individual level, of course, but also you will have a common language and a common understanding of what productivity is. So that when you talk to someone and you tell them, well, I have a waiting for for you on this subject, where are you at? You passed your deadline for this. They will, you know, it's— they will understand what is a waiting for and why is this important. And Another thing to remember is that when you work in a team, collaborate with people, you're part of an organization or a big company, it's important you can use different parts of the Getting Things Done methodology. As you might remember from the previous episodes, we talked about control and perspective. Control is the 5 steps of GTD, by the way, back to episodes 2 to 6. Which gives you the possibility to control and get under control your life and work. So you make the right stuff. But how do you know what the right stuff is? When it comes to an organization, then you can use what we call the Horizons of Focus model that gives you perspective. So just briefly on Horizons of Focus: why is this model interesting? To align everybody in the organization, in the department, or in the project to the same why. Why are we doing this? And what we call the what. What is important here? What is the framework and what's the standards we need to adhere to to make this a good success? And this model helps you to move forward more efficient and more effective, more productive than before when you are an individual doing GTD. If your whole team, your whole organization was doing this, it would be better for everyone, actually. So we are going to talk about something called the natural planning model. What is that, Lars, and why is that relevant?

Lars: Yeah, so when we talk about GTD for teams, one way to align everyone, like you just mentioned, on the different horizons focus when it comes to a specific project is this natural planning model, which we were going through in a previous episode. So you have the different steps there, you can go back and find that episode to go more into detail on that. But it is a really interesting way to approach projects and the products, sorry, projects, and especially across different teams. I found it really valuable because we all have our own perspectives and filters set up on what what we see and what's the goal of these different projects. But to have everyone in the room define why we do this, what's the vision, where are we actually heading with this, and then brainstorm. Because people from marketing, people from IT, people from HR, if we're all involved, especially in bigger companies, we all have our own, you know, ways of looking at these things, and we come up with different results. And having that alignment across the teams, understanding where people are heading, is really a great way to make sure that we are working on the right things, working together. Because you will also sometimes find— I think I'm reminded just as I'm saying this back to the GTD Summit where one of our colleagues, Sabri from Germany, I think, mentioned that soccer players would rather lose— the defensive players would rather lose 1-0 than win 5-4 because there were less goals scored in their goal. So this often, I think, takes place in bigger companies, that people have their own perspectives and focus on things that they value and protect. So I think for me, the natural planning model has been great regarding this. But then moving forward, what's next? Because this is obviously the starting point. We get a good, clear picture of how we move forward. But as always, it comes back to the personal productivity aspect. You're on a team, but when you're back at your desk, you are the one that needs to move this forward. So, for example, having that project list like we talked about earlier, what are my active projects, both for yourself but also aligning with others, aligning with a boss, for example. I know from people who have attended seminars in Denmark that they really struggle to maintain the right amount of work that they are capable of doing at any given time. So having that project list well-defined, what are my outcomes, and aligning with others on that, people that, that, you know, assign different projects to you, be clear on what you are actively working on. That project list is really valuable. And certainly the delegated project as well. So if you are the person delegating it, I know from previous projects as well, having that delegated projects list is just invaluable when you sit down, have these check-ins, touch base, status meetings, whatever you want to call them, that you can walk through that list and really show people that you're actually engaged in what you have delegated to them and really want to follow up and support them in getting that stuff done.

Morten: Can I just stop you for a second? I see people don't say this, but between the lines is that when you're in a meeting and you have a boss or a manager who don't do GTD and who don't have the full overview, who write everything down, some people speculate that he won't remember this or she won't remember this. So I can say yes, to this and next time he or she won't remember. If you use this model as a manager, you will be the person who never forgets. You will be the elephant who will remember everything, all commitments given by both your superiors and your employees. So, yeah.

Lars: Exactly. And also, yeah, so also to capture things that are coming your way or to identify them and to mitigate any risks or finding a different way around it. What are the challenges that you're facing with this project? Really try to work. I think everything just works so much smoother when you have that nice clean list of things that you can talk from. At least that's my personal experience. And then really also on the lowest level, looking back at the different horizons of focus all the way down to capturing things like you already mentioned, having common language about waiting for us. I am again reminded of a colleague when we spoke about these waiting for us, they also mentioned perhaps that was even in the GTD Summit as well, changing the terminology, for example. So instead of chasing people for information, that's often a phrase that you use out there to I'm still waiting for someone. Well, changing that, chasing Thomas for the information to I'm waiting for Thomas to get back to me, it's a small thing. It's a subtle thing, but it really does matter how you phrase that and how, you know, how you communicate about the company. So those kinds of small things that you capture things, that doesn't mean I don't trust you. That means that I recognize that my brain is not able to handle the complexity of the jobs that we are doing. It's not that I don't trust you. I'm just putting it in here so we know that this will be done. Yeah, and then, you know, things like agenda lists as well, I think, are obvious when we talk about GCD for Teams. When the next action is to talk to someone, put it on the agenda list, especially in these big office settings where you can really see that people are struggling to, you know, maintain their focus, dive into the work that they're doing, and not be interrupted. Having that agenda list so you can, you know, capture these 5 things and when I have your attention rather than interrupting you while you're working. Go through that list, that's really valuable.

Morten: Yes. And another thing about just detail about agenda for lists is if you have an agenda for lists with owner, they work the best if you have regular meetings with these people, you know, once a week, every second week or something. And that the item you put there can wait until the next meeting. If you don't, if you can't wait, you make a next action instead. And send an email, call, just go and talk to the person, something, whatever it is. If you put it on the Agenda for, you will not trust that list because, you know, it's not handled good if it can't wait. So rhythmical scheduled meetings, Agenda for works best for that.

Lars: Exactly, for people. And also I would add for meetings. Yeah, so regular stand-up meetings, staff meetings, you know, those kinds of things where you want I want to mention something. It's just, it's worked really well for me to have a specific list that I know, okay, when we get to that meeting, I always pick up that list. I know I'll be reminded when I, when I need to.

Morten: And we use this, of course, we eat our— David Allen would call this eat your own dog food— is that we eat our own dog food here. And when Lars and I talk, we have an agenda for each other, the things that we need to talk about, mention something. And this is valuable because then we don't have to remember all the details until next meeting, but we pull up the list and the list reminds us. Of the talking points we have to get through in this meeting. And that works really well, doesn't it?

Lars: It does. And I think it also— I think it's even becoming more valuable as the complexity grows, because thinking about bigger companies, I did a speech last week in one of the really big companies here in Denmark, an IT company. And when we talk about tools, they have so many different ways to communicate. So obviously good old face-to-face, or maybe via phone or Skype or whatever it could be, ways to talk to these things through. That's where we use the agenda list. But, but really, like you just mentioned, giving people the— reminding people to think about how they should communicate this, because we tend to just pick a channel that we think might make sense. I'll just send you a message, or I'll put it on, you know, an email, or I'll give you a call. Or, you know, really reflect on what— how do this topic that I'm looking at, how would I like to discuss that with you? Is it a simple email message that I can just get your confirmation on, or should we talk this thing through once we are talking. I think that's, that's an added bonus of this.

Morten: Exactly. And one other aspect of GTD for Teams is that something I recommend people when I go into Teams is that they should have a discussion. And I could of course come with some pointers. Maybe we will make another episode about this, but email best practices, internal emails. So what is our internal email best practice for if I send you an email, what does that mean? What is your response time for this? What can I expect from you when I send you an an email, and what does CC mean when I carbon copy you on something? What does that mean really? And these are good conversation points that a team that works with GTD can raise, and you establish how do we communicate so that we don't destroy our attention when we have attention on a project or a task or next action, whatever you want to work on right now. How can we make sure that we have time for concentration?

Lars: Yeah, and it's so interesting to see these, you know, people have— when you then ask people in the different companies, so what are your communication standards such as email and also for the other channels? And some people will be very clear and some people will be looking around the room to see what are the others saying. What I have found was that people with the most experience in a specific company, they would then have a good idea and they may even know of a corporate standard. But when you then look around the room, because they thought that everyone knew this, but it turns out that basically nobody knew that, you know, one business day was the standard for replying to an email. And so, so again, defining this also for new people joining the companies, it's, it's, it would be amazing for me, I think, to, to show about a company and then, well, this, these are the standards that we work from when we have, you know, these are for the different channels.

Morten: If you get an onboarding document outlining email best practices for internal emails that makes your communication and your life as a newly employed so much easier. I totally agree with you.

Lars: Yeah, exactly. And then also, you know, why another reason to how this implementing GTD helps a company, I think, is that it increases trust. And that comes from, you know, that you trust your employees or you trust your colleagues more, that they capture things, they have their stuff under control, and that also expands to the company. So really, that you trust your colleagues then really, uh, grows to appreciating the company more. So we find there, at least I find, that people are more happy when they do this. We know this from studies as well, um, and that reflects on the company. So coming back to why should a company invest in making or supporting their employees to use GTD, um, that's a pretty good reason, I think.

Morten: Exactly. And, um, and it also, if you make this If you implement GTD for everyone in a team, their trust to each other, of course, increases, and their ability to deliver faster, better results without, you know, with less mistakes.

Lars: Is, you.

Morten: Know, mistakes in business cost money. And I think that's one of the big benefits is that you make less mistakes. You make sure you work on the right things. More than just work hard. One of the things I am blessed with, the fortune of talking to a lot of, what would you call them, leaders in the Norwegian industries. I talk to executive management teams, CEOs and presidents, and one of the things they all tell me, confidentially of course, but they all tell me the same thing. Which may make it common is that we are really good at if we see problems is to fix the problems quickly. But it costs a lot to fix the problems because we have to do overtime, we have to, you know, add resources to the project to make it successful. And, and we would really like to not make mistakes. We don't have to add additional resources to the time to the project to finish it. We would like to do it correctly the first time, and that will save us a lot of money. And this is GTD for Teams will help you do that, produce more of the right things with less mistakes.

Lars: Yeah, and the last one I would, would add to that, looking at the productivity, is also I find that the number of meetings will typically go down because people are more on top of their inboxes. You have agenda lists to make sure that the items are clarified so you can move things forward. And number of meetings is really a challenge in a lot of organizations, not all certainly, but a lot of organizations really spend way too much time in meetings rather than being able to deliver on what they should be working on. So having tools available to lower that amount of meetings is really a lot of value for a lot of people.

Morten: Yeah, and I also say that when, especially if you work— it's of course valuable in any organization, but especially if you work in distributed organizations where people work from different locations and you have to collaborate virtually, or you have to collaborate where you're not synchronously talking to each other, but you have different time zones, for instance, and you have— then you need a tool for collaboration also for for showing people when— and we're looking into this— different tools for collaborating so that when somebody finishes something across time zones, you'll get a push notification or an email that this desired outcome was achieved. So now you can move on. When you have all people talking the same language, desired outcomes, next actions, it makes a lot easier. To move things forward.

Lars: Definitely.

Morten: So, okay, I think maybe this wraps it up. Do you have something to add?

Lars: No, I think that's, that's about it. But for those of you listening, hope that you find this valuable. If you have anything to add, be sure to let us know, podcast@gcdnordic.dk. If you have any additional tips or things that you've experienced or things that we, we might have missed, and maybe we can, can share that somewhere, or perhaps in the in a future episode. And, um, if you want to find more information about the work that we do, go to gtdnordic.com. You will find our newsletter, a lot of different articles, um, links to the podcast, um, and, and much more. gtdnordic.com will link you to the country website in the Nordics of your choice. Um, and like I said, I hope you find it valuable. If you do, then please do share it with, uh, with a colleague or, or rate it on iTunes. It really helps the discoverability of the podcast to probably help even more people learn GCD.

Morten: Exactly. So thank you for listening, and welcome back in a couple of weeks' time. Thank you, Lars, and have a great two weeks, everybody.

Lars: Bye-bye. Thanks, everyone. Bye-bye.