71. GTD And Your Summer Holiday

Transcript

Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.

Morten: Hi and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from GTD Nordic. I am Morten Røvik and I'm here as always with my good friend and colleague Lars Rothschild Henriksen. Lars.

Lars: Morten, good to see you as always, and as always looking forward to recording another episode for our listeners and viewers out there. The purpose of our podcast is to help you learn GTD or become an even better GTDer. So we hope that today's episode supports you in that. And if you're new to GTD, we always recommend you go back and listen to episodes 1 through 6 to get an introduction to the basics of Getting Things Done. This is episode number 71, I believe we agreed on, and today's topic is GTD and your summer holiday.

Morten: Yes, and that entails you are going to have a summer holiday, and I think we both are. And the question one might ask oneself is why, why, why you have a vacation? No, of course we know why you will have a vacation or a holiday, but why prepare for this? Why is it important to make good preparations? And I think that what we will discuss today will be, you need to do something before and then during the vacation. How would you, you know, all the things you can do in a vacation, are you going to do something work-related or are you going to do something? Then you have different preferences on this, right? At least for this year, I might change next year, I don't know. Yeah, we don't know. We are trying things out. And we have touched upon this topic before. So some of you who will go back will understand that we do actually change our habits, or at least the way that, you know, our protocols for handling a vacation. So, and that is normal. It's allowed to change. It's allowed to experiment. That's part of getting things done. So now, Loris, how do you prepare for your vacation and why would you even care to prepare for a vacation getting things done-wise?

Lars: Yeah, I actually just wanted to take a step back and go for that first question because that's a nice reflection, I think, for some people to just reflect on why you would want to do that and also to maybe, you know, align some of your activities with the higher horizons and maybe even start to establish them as depending on where you are in your GTD journey. So the reason for me to go back and get ready for a vacation is, well, what's the purpose of the vacation for me? For me, it is to spend time, stay present with friends and family that I know I will be spending time with during this year's summer holiday. So that would be the key reason for me to be able to, to be as present as possible with them and enjoy the different adventures that we will engage in. During this year's summer holiday. What about you?

Morten: No, the same with me. I'm trying to, you know, I'm not trying to, I've been defining my desired outcome for vacations before, and that has actually worked really well. My desired outcome for summer vacation is to relax, re-energize, recharge the batteries, be inspired, and just basically enjoy life and be present in the moment. And we are not going to do this the last year, but last year, we, you know, the epiphany for, or my, I wouldn't call it epiphany, what is called the epicenter or the peak of a vacation for me is often has been the last few years, something with the sea, and to sail is one of my passions. We are not going to do that this year, but we're going to go for some boat trips that we know, and just to relax in the sun and swim and feel the, you know, the sun on your body and just be. That is vacation for me. So, and my That is my desired outcome, that full part. And if you look at that as the desired outcome, how do I get there? How do I prepare for this? And what do I do when I am on vacation? So we talked a little about this in the pre-show, and we do know that a lot of the things that we are communicating through now are basically, at least for external communication, is email. And sometimes phone calls and sometimes SMSs, but preferably email is the biggest channel, at least for me. I'm guessing it's the same for you, Lars. And how do you prepare your, you know, email for vacation? What's your strategy?

Lars: Well, for me, with regards to email, as always, you know, it's In general terms, it's of course an inbox to stay on top of as part of your GTD practice. And I'll make sure to do that to the best of my abilities as we approach the summer holidays. One thing to look out for, for me, is to make sure that I am on top of things, meaning that if there are people that are awaiting an answer from me, that I will either get them that answer or be sure to communicate to them that things are moving a bit fast now, might not be able to make it before the summer vacation. Maybe set up a meeting afterwards or whatever the case might be. And then of course the good old out of office. Make sure that that is set up very nice and clean. In my case, I will typically set it up to trigger just maybe the day or a day or two before I actually go on vacation, just because, you know, what I found is that I really, you know, those emails that, let's say, the Friday is my last working day. I really don't like those emails that show up Friday at 3 PM that I won't get to, and they can.

Morten: Really take up— I know them.

Lars: They can really take up, you know, a part of my ability to stay present during the holiday. So I'll be sure to set that up to trigger and go out to people sending me emails before actually going on vacation. And I might in some cases actually do the same at the end of the vacation as well, just to give me a few days to get back on top. But that does vary a bit. What do you do?

Morten: Well, I do the same. I start my vacation email vacation a day before my real vacation. And just for the same reason as you do, is that if you send someone an email on a Friday and you understand they're on vacation, your expectations are lowered, especially if you define how they can expect, what kind of response they can expect. So if you do it on a Thursday before the Friday emails that are, hi, I'm on vacation, I'll be back 2 days after I'm back, you don't tell them, but you can put the date in there so the people, you have a couple of days and it can, I do not read emails this summer, That might be your case. I read email when I find time. We will discuss that later on, but just to set expectations on when you send me an email during my vacation, how and when can you expect an answer? So to set up And as an out-of-office reply, that, that, that helps a lot. Um, do you have, do you, do you use, um, you know, an answering machine on your mobile? Do you use that?

Lars: Yeah, exactly. And I might go in and change that as well to, to let people know that, um, that I might be, you know, just more easily accessible via, via text because that's also what you'd be, what you'll be finding in my, my out-of-office is state the dates where I'll be gone, but also if you need my response urgently, please do send me a text. That's a standard part of my out-of-office email, and it really, you know, it gives me a sense of calm that I know that people will have received that. They ideally have also read it and saw that, you know, to reach me, they will need to send me a text, and otherwise I'll get back to them as soon as I can when I'm back from my vacation.

Morten: And if you have to get back to people after the vacation, how do you handle that during the vacation? Just, I'm curious about how you handle it. So if I call you, I leave a message. Hey, Loris, it's King Harald of Norway here. I wanted to do GTD for the castle. Can you come? We need Danish speaking.

Lars: He keeps calling. No, I would capture that and just really throw it in my inbox. In case it was the king, I might might put it in the calendar to make sure I called back as soon as I was back. But otherwise, I would generally capture that in my list manager in my inbox. And because I know that's what I'll, one of the first things that I'll be processing when I get back is to walk through that and pick up on those. Would you do the same or how would you do it?

Morten: Yeah, if I got an SMS or a call during my vacation, sometimes I really, I want the calls to happen. And, but if— and I will explain later a little bit why, but some of the calls I will then just text people back, but I don't have an, you know, an answering machine message. So if people call, I will either— when I see them call, I've set up a template for, I'm on a vacation, I'm back this and here. If it's nothing urgent, I'll call you, I'll get back to you then. If it is urgent, please send me an SMS about what it is and we can set up a call.

Lars: Yeah.

Morten: Which makes sense.

Lars: That's a good strategy. Yeah. I would typically go in there and I would, you know, so I have the answering machine. If they left a message, I will typically listen to it because otherwise that will just be in my head. I know my brain. Yeah. Say that. I have to go in there and listen.

Morten: I am curious. Yeah, exactly.

Lars: If they did not leave a message, I will typically just really practically go into my calls app on my phone and I would copy the phone number and I will throw that in my inbox with a note saying when they called because then I'll have that as a reference and try to give them a call back when I'm back.

Morten: Yeah, me too. And let me just backtrack because I wanted, I have one exception of my rules for that, and what I will get back to that. But if you just take a step back again, because I think there is more to, for us to cover during the before the vacation, in preparation for the vacation, because email is one thing, but how do you handle your commitments, your actions, and your projects? Work and private? Do you have a strategy for that?

Lars: Yeah, so one thing I'll be sure to do is do a good solid, solid, solid weekly review to really go through and really look through all of the support material on all the projects and really, really dive, dive into that, um, to really be well prepared and really also really get that good solid mind sweep in there in case there might be something lurking in there that you haven't captured yet. That you might want to handle before your vacation, that will be— be sure to go, go chasing for that. I can hear that's, that's what you would do as well.

Morten: Exactly. So, okay, so, um, one of the things I do when I do this is because I've, um, sometimes I will need to look at my system during my, um, my vacation. Like if I capture in, in In OmniFocus that I use, I tend to be distracted if there are some projects that are active and visible for me. So what I do is that I, when I go for a vacation, is that I am, we have, you have the possibility to pause a project and then you can in OmniFocus and that makes it also you can set up a view where you will see only active projects, which means that if I go for my projects, I will see no projects I'm really free. And that helps me focus on that I'm not supposed to do work in my vacation time unless it's really urgent. Because I'm, I'm as you, I'm very easily distracted. You know, show me something shiny, as David would say, I will be looking at something interesting. And so I really need to clean the deck or clear the deck in my OmniFocus to feel good about this. Do you do something like this or do you have another strategy or you don't need it?

Lars: Yeah, no, I do envy that feature because obviously that's a very OmniFocus-specific feature to set that review frequency on different projects. And I don't have that same option in my list manager. So can't really replicate that on my end. On the other hand, you probably also wouldn't find me in the projects list. So if we switch to the— I.

Morten: Make sections lists maybe.

Lars: Yeah, exactly. And those I would go to. So let's say we are now during the vacation. For me specifically this year, it'll be 2 weeks in Norway, 1 week in the summer house up there, and 1 week camping with my wife and the boys, then 1 week in our summer house in Denmark. So in that last week, for example, you will, you'll probably find me in that next actions list on all the stuff that I could be doing around the summer house that I want to have on my, on my list there. So, so in that case, I would specifically go for the, the labels that I use for, for the summer house. And then review that to see if that's something I want to do.

Morten: Yeah. And, and, and just to be clear that for those of you who are using OmniFocus, it's the project pausing I'm talking about. So when you pause a project, you can have a view where you see only active projects. And all the perspectives. So it's, but you can in Todoist drag and drop things in and out of folders, right?

Lars: Absolutely. Yeah. You can drag it all around any way you want.

Morten: Yes, exactly. So if you have after a vacation, I will look at this folder projects or just projects on pause or on hold or something.

Lars: Yeah. And I would, you know, in the case where I actually do need to go and have a look at my projects, let's say that there was some project that I wanted to work on during our summer break in the summer house. They will already be grouped in my system. So based on areas of focus and they will have a separate, yeah, I would, I would call it a project group that I would then aim for and then just expand that and see the different projects that we have going on right now. 3 or 4 different ones, I think at the moment.

Morten: And now I am hearing some person trying to kill our podcast. There's somebody drilling somewhere in my vicinity outside the window, so I just shut the window. No, but okay, so that's before vacations. Do you do anything else as a preparation?

Lars: I think the last one I would want to mention would be to block my calendar a bit. I mentioned on this podcast before, and I'll mention it probably again, that There's an optimistic version of me before the, the summer holiday that tends to really be happy and, and, you know, think that we can do a lot of work when we get back. So let's just schedule that and put it in the calendar. And I already see a pretty busy August right now, so I'm very cautious about putting, putting too much in there because I really saw that last year that I had very much overcommitted to different things. So this year I'm, I'm really focusing on that, blocking my calendar. If you go in there right now, you won't find a lot of room in my calendar for the rest actually of this month. And the same will be the case when I'm back. This year is slightly different because my vacation is— oh, so briefly, in Denmark, most people will be on vacation from weeks 28, 29, and 30. This year for me, it's 27, 28, 29. So I'll be back in a vacation week for most people. So there is just naturally more room in my calendar there, but it's something I'm very much focused on to not put too much stuff in there.

Morten: Exactly. So I do this more or less the same thing, but I have been, yeah, and just one more thing to add to that is that I think you also use the feature where you can book a meeting with you. And I use that actively and frequently. Especially if you want to talk to me about something you are interested in, you can book. I have an online calendar. You can book my time.

Lars: And I'm— for coaching clients that are interested in coaching, for example, will often send us an email about this. Maybe you can listen to us from podcast. So that's a great feature to have to send people to that link so we can set our meeting and talk about whether coaching would be a good approach for you.

Morten: Yeah. And what I do then is that one of my preparations on my checklist for prepare for vacation is, you know, to make sure that that calendar isn't continuing into July. So that's, that has happened. When I go for a vacation, it's the time is available for people to book. And nope, I'm on vacation. I'm sorry, you can't book my time now. So just to make sure that that's not happening. And, and I will then also block my calendar for, you know, on not available, and where people who want internally or externally can't call me for a meeting, that they will have an auto-reply that I'm sorry, but Morten is not available for a meeting on that time.

Lars: Just got one of those the other day, so I know that that's set up for you.

Morten: Yeah. I understand it works. And it clears the decks and it also helps people communicate without communicating. I don't have to tell you I'm on a vacation because you will understand I'm on a vacation when you try to book a meeting while I'm on a vacation. I think that covers it for me for preparation, except for one thing is that I always set up a folder or a label as it is in Gmail. For, I call it, "dot to be answered after vacation." And I know you will not have this because your email inbox will be brimful when you come back because you have a different, you know, approach to this than me. So what's your during the vacation? How are you taking vacation vacation?

Lars: That is a leading question because I will not be looking at my emails there. No, and I do remember that tip. From, I think, when we spoke about it last year or maybe the year before in the podcast as well. And I think that's a great tip to make it easier to stay on top of things when you get back and staying in the driver's seat with that inbox zero approach. We take the same approach in Denmark when we do— like, I did a seminar last week and we had many people actually reached inbox zero during that seminar. They were a really good group already. Are they enthusiastic?

Morten: Yes, they are. Yes.

Lars: They were. So in that case, for those that didn't make it, set aside a folder with the remaining ones to just get into the habit of having that zero inbox is a great approach. And obviously that's the same that you're doing. But no, what you're hinting at is that I have taken the serious step of not checking my emails during this summer vacation. So just like you said in the beginning, we do things differently and try things, things out sometimes. And I went completely offline a few years back and really appreciated that. I didn't think last year was the right time for me to do that. I think this year it will be again, so I will be offline, and that will be stated clearly in my email as well, that if you do need to get in touch with me, you certainly can send me a text and I will get back to you. Otherwise, you'll hear from me when I'm back from my, my vacation. And unrelated to the vacation, I also just recently deleted my mail app on my phone again. I work much better if you don't give me the opportunity to do something. So I could have that and just not check it. But it will— whenever I just, you know, often at least when I tend to install that email app on my phone, it will tend to become one of the most frequently used apps. So it will be right there looking at me. Waiting for me. So in that case, it's easier for me to just get rid of it. And yeah, so far I really like it. And, you know, let's talk again in August and I might have installed it again.

Morten: Yeah, well, it is— we are— and, you know, it's— I think both you and I, Lars, are, you know, you have the brothers from another mother or something. I don't know if that's possible to say, but it is We are scatterbrained, or at least maybe not scatterbrained, but we are very easily distracted and pulled into things that are attractive to us in some sort. And to be aware of that and then to uninstall the app itself. Some people just turn off the push notifications, or some people might even benefit just to not have the notifications as a number of unread emails. I do that. I don't have that. I haven't had that for a long time. I don't uninstall the app, but I don't have any, you know, these red circles with a number inside. And that is the creation of evil. And yes, it is. And it pulls me in. I don't like that. I want to be the master of my focus. Don't mess with me. So I'm turning that off all the time. I'm a weak person. Don't, don't use my weakness.

Lars: So I installed the Facebook app and the LinkedIn app. But yeah, it's all gone.

Morten: Oh, okay. So I've not done that, but I've turned off notifications for both of them. And yeah, it's— yeah, but as long as you have some kind of the feeling that you are in control of this. That's the most important thing.

Lars: And the way that I have done it right now, because with that, let's call it scatterbrain, I also have, you know, the FOMO part of really, you know, what might happen, what might be in there. So in that case, I have a, let's say, a procrastination device that I can open, which is, you know, I have the apps on my iPad. So I know that I can just go there and look if I actually do want to go in there and have a look at what's what's going on on LinkedIn or email or whatever it might be. But I find that my, you know, oftentimes I will, I don't like responding to emails on my phone. The consequence of that is that I will go in there, I might read.

Morten: An email and you get cognitive dissonance. I have to do something about this and I can't.

Lars: Okay. So I'll look at that. And so I can, that would then lead me to, for example, the action folder approach and then move emails to the action folder. And then I'm, playing around with that. I've been using that for a while now. I want to get back to getting those emails back on my list instead so they don't— because they'll tend in my, in my case to take up too much of my focus. It'll be too enticing. There'll be that, that action folder in there. There's 25 emails waiting for me. I'm sure all those 25 people are just, you know, standing there looking at their screen waiting for me to respond to that email. So I just go in there and get that one. Really just, you know, take take way too much of my attention.

Morten: So, dear listeners, dear listeners and viewers, I'm sure that by now you understand that Lars and I just are human beings. We have the same problems as the rest of you. The only difference is that we are maybe more in touch with our weaknesses and we have a system called Getting Things Done to try and avoid, you know, overwhelm and full-on stress. So, but good on you, Lars.

Lars: But it might be the case. You never know. You may, the king might have sent me an email.

Morten: How about have Silke, your wife, read your email for you to look at something?

Lars: That'd be nice. Yeah.

Morten: No, no, but I'm, I'm, I might, I'm not saying I will, but I'm, I'm a little, Inspired by your Go Cold Turkey email. And the only reason that I read email in the summer, summertime, or in the vacation time is that very, very seldom there's something that's urgent. But sometimes in the summertime, I get emails from journalists who want me to participate in a radio program or just be interviewed for for an article they want to write. And being, you know, entrepreneurs, small business owners, we are— it's, you know, at least for me, we are— it helps when people write about you or want to interview you or do a radio. People are, you know, the ones who are not then working, sort of the ones that are working and still reading something will have something valuable that I can give them. But I am, I am, and that's why I read email during my vacation. But maybe I should then just say that if you're a journalist, out-of-office reply, if you're a journalist, please send me an SMS. I really want to hear from you. And I want to take time out of my vacation to talk to you because you are important for me. And the rest of you, sorry.

Lars: I was just going to say that kind of implicitly says something.

Morten: Yeah, I'll have to find a wording where that's that can not alienate all the potential clients out there or existing clients. So, okay. Okay.

Lars: And otherwise, I mean, during the summer, you'll find my inbox to be capturing a lot of stuff as it shows up. I think if I reflect back on, you know, past year's vacation, it'll have a pretty clear trend. Towards a lot of stuff showing up at the beginning and then, you know, slowly, slowly slowing down as the vacation progresses. And it typically will pick up again when I do my half-year review, as we spoke about a few years before on the podcast as well, to, you know, I'll this year be again taking a walk somewhere alone in the mountains of Norway somewhere for some hours, just alone and just sitting down, reflecting on the higher horizons, and I'm really looking forward to that. And obviously there will be a lot of stuff being captured there, so it's not like I won't be thinking of work at all during the vacation, just mainly triggered from my half-year review. I think that's my expectation. Let's check in again after the summer holidays.

Morten: And we will do a check-in episode for you. After the vacation. We are, you know, getting back on the GGD horse or on your game again after vacation is probably an episode we will make, or at least we are talking about it. So stay tuned. If I'm, if I'm going to, to, you know, not doing my out-of-office reply for the journalists, I want to draw an alternative for people that are are in the need of staying in touch with, you know, what kind of strategies can you have. My strategies that work for me— you might want to have another schedule for this— but one strategy has been for me to do this 1 hour a day, or often very early in the morning. I'm an early riser, so I get up at, you know, 6:00, 6:30, or something like this. Even on vacation, and people go, oh, he's crazy. No, but I'm— that's my rhythm of the day. So I get up early. It's not very early, but it's for vacation. People will say, why are you doing this? But I like the silence of the morning. And then I set aside 1 hour in early morning to read and respond to emails that I feel need a response. But I don't do anything else. So if it's not urgent or important, you're in the answered after vacation folder. And I'm just doing a little triage there. So one is answered after the vacation. If there is, you know, if it is easy and fast, less than 2 minutes, next actions, I will do that. The rest that is not actionable is deleted or archived. So, and it is a way to do a triage so that I can then, because I'm that, if I don't have that, I feel I'm, my fear of missing out, my FOMO hits me. Something is going to happen now. There are some emails here, you haven't read them, Morten, or they're going to get you.

Lars: So doesn't that— I think if I took that approach, because like I said, I did that pretty much last year, just, you know, checked in every 2 days. But I would find that if I respond to people, I would sort of set the expectations for them that I will be able to respond again if they wrote back to me in 30 minutes, or, you know, there'll be, you know, that might actually create more cognitive dissonance than staying away from the inbox. But I guess that does not happened to you?

Morten: No, well, I'm in that email. I have a TextExpander snippet saying, you know, that FYI, I'm on vacation. I'm answering you now, but don't expect an answer quickly. It might take a few days before I get back to you. So when people, when I respond, then I need my MacBook to do this. So that's, you know, I have to, you know, open it and I do, you know, boot Chrome to get into Gmail and to do that. So it is a— and I do my very best not to read emails on my phone unless it's— I'm waiting for something important and I'm on the go. So, and another thing is that when I'm on vacation, often I have my— the internet that we have are really spotty because we travel, my wife and I, we travel to Turkey and travel inside Turkey and Turkey has 4G, and I'm sure they will have— they have even 4.5G, which is kind of interesting. It's— I think it is what we call LTE and real 4G, not fake 4G. But they have— but it is spotty. And so if— but, and, and it is like both water and electricity in parts of Turkey, it is sometimes not existing. So, um, yeah, well, they sometimes stop the water for, you know, for a couple of hours. And sometimes electricity goes, so you don't have— so that's, uh, we had that in Norway.

Lars: We had a cabin that had absolutely no water and no electricity.

Morten: So yeah, yeah. And even, even maybe an outdoor toilet. So I know that that's called a vacation for Norwegians and some days I hear. So, but, um, yeah, but on a permanent basis where you are expecting running water and expecting, um, you know, electricity city and expecting 4G coverage, it's a surprise sometimes if you get it, and you are then happy praising the higher mites of the internet and interwebs and electricity people and water people, saying that, "Thank you, we have water today," or internet. So that gives— that is a little difficult traveling. So I'm setting myself up for a little stress. I'm more and more leaning towards now doing the Lars approach for vacation, going cold turkey. But before, just to go back to that, I will read my emails. I will do a triage where I— emails that need responding, that can wait to after my vacation, will be in my dot after vacation folder. And 2 minutes will be 2 minutes. And delete— I'm deleting a lot and archiving a lot. That's not something that I need to get done. And responding to that emails I need to get to respond to, like from the journalist. But that's been my approach, an hour a day maximum, because I'm like you, I can get pulled into things. And when you're on a vacation, you should be on a vacation and and unwind. So I feel I'm more and more attracted to the Lars method. I understand it's a better approach for me. So, okay. So do you have anything to add to this, Lars?

Lars: So no, I think we covered pretty much what I had in mind about setting yourself up for having a good vacation and talked a bit about the different strategies for how you might use TCD during a vacation. The system might still come into play if you do want to use it, still capturing away with all the good stuff that might show up. No, I think we covered pretty much all on my list.

Morten: Yeah. And the only thing that I would like to add is then for capturing, I'm, I'm, I'm, and I'm a little hesitant to say this because we are fresh out of Zebra pens for the capture wallet. But I'm loving my Capture Wallet when I'm on the end and, you know, Cyberpen in Japan, they stopped making them. So now it's a little crease in our little webshop, more than two of them. But I love my Capture Wallet when I'm on a vacation because I need cards, I need cash, I need to take it with me and I need to be able, you know, I need to be able to, you know, write things out of my head as they show up.. And I also use a little plastic zip lock, I would call it bag, but it is like a Ziploc envelope of, you know, enforced plastic with the grid reinforcement in nylon. And that works really well. That's my inbox. So I, you know, I capture it in my wallet and I then just just toss it in there, and then that follows in the backpack wherever we go. So I have a, you know, my, my ideas and potential to-dos, next actions, are captured somewhere that I know I will get back to, and that is safe and sound. So, yeah, are we at the end of this episode, Lars?

Lars: I think we are.

Morten: Yeah. Then will you take us out, please?

Lars: I will, because we always wrap up these episodes with a quick reminder to head on over to gtdnordic.com to have a look around. Because on that website, as many of you listeners already know, you can find the country website for each of the Nordic countries. And on each of those sites, you'll find articles about GTD, links to the newsletters, all that that good stuff, including all of our offerings regarding speeches, coaching, and seminars, both the physical and virtual ones. If you're outside the Nordics, gettingthingsdone.com is the place to go to find your local partners. And as always, we really hope that you find these episodes valuable. And if this episode or GTD in general has made a difference in your life, then please help us by spreading the message to more people with a rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you Listen, it really helps other people discover and learn GTD, which is why we are here. And then lastly, really lastly, wishing you a great summer vacation. This is our last episode before the summer break, so we plan to be back on August 17th.

Morten: Exactly, but then with an episode that will help you get back on your game. Let's do that. Yeah, and I just want to say thank you to all who's rating us, giving us a thumbs up. And we have a lot of emails from people giving us thumbs up. I look at Spotify now, we have 19, I think, 5-star ratings, which is— wow, thank you. Keep them coming. We need them. Yeah, just to get the word out there. A lot of people will search for Getting Things Done. And if you have high star ratings, we will be higher up in the pile of potential podcasts you can listen to. So thank you. For doing that. And until next time, have a great vacation and stay safe and stay productive.

Lars: Bye-bye!