67. Path To GTD Mastery

Transcript

Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.

Morten: Hi and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from GTD Nordic. I am Morten Drevik and I am as always here with my good friend and colleague Lars Rothschild Henriksen. Privet, Lars.

Lars: Privet, Morten. Good to see you as always and looking forward to recording another episode for everyone out there. We always start off by reminding you of the purpose of this podcast, which is to help you learn GTD or become even better GTDers. So we hope that this episode supports you in that. And if you are new to GTD, we recommend you go back and listen to episodes 1 through 6 to get an introduction to the basics of GTD. This is episode 67 of the podcast, and today's topic is the path of GTD Mastery.

Morten: Indeed. And we are going to try to take you from, I understand what GTD is, I have a grasp of the methodology, and until you are a GTD ninja with a black belt and 3 white stripes and are in the calm and serenity of getting things done. Before we go there, I would like to apologize because we have been thinking— we, or I have been mistakenly thinking we're talking Ukrainian in our greetings. Tere is Estonian and not Ukrainian, but privet is hello or hi in Ukrainian. So now we've fixed that. Sorry for all the people who have listened and said, what are you talking about? So, um, so if you think back, Loris, on when you met Gigi, there is many stages of what you can learn and at what stage you learn what and how, you know, because it's a lot of pieces to get, you know, accumulated that gives you the, the, the, you know, the, the more whole approach to, to getting things done than just the, the the different parts. So we have been visiting our, you know, our, what would you call it, career starts with Getting Things Done at some point where we started with it. But if you're going to look at maybe one of your coaching clients or some person you know that got started with Getting Things Done, what do you think was the instigating factor for someone deciding to, okay, I want to learn GTD?

Lars: Yeah, it's a good, it's a good question. I mean, for, from, for myself, it really was to understand, you know, more about how to work in the most productive way while also being able to disconnect. I think that was sort of the key starting point for me. I think probably the productivity aspect was the most important part. And as I've progressed over the years, the value has changed and different aspects are more important to me now. The disconnecting part. And staying present with whatever I'm doing part is the most important aspect for me. But people come across this from many different angles. First of all, it's the awareness, of course, that there is a methodology out there that supports you in working in the best way possible with all the stuff that's going on in your life. So it is often the people that really are already good, that are already moving at a pretty high pace and notice that they could be moving even faster or even smoother. I think it's probably the most generic way I can describe it. I don't know, how would you describe it, Juan?

Morten: Yeah, I wouldn't stray too far off what you just told us. The only thing I could add is that you have the other end of the spectrum where people are in total chaos. But I think that one thing that is common for a lot of people wanting to learn Getting Things Done is because they are conscious people. They want to, and they have a sense of duty. They want to deliver on their expectations of themselves and their peers. So if, you know, you give them a task, they would like to finish it, and they would like to do it good. Finish it on time. And if not, they will not feel good about themselves. And people with a conscience is, you know, it's a dual-edged sword. If you don't have it, you're a slacker. And if you have too much of it, you will be a perfectionist and drive yourself into stress and an early death. So putting it a little bluntly, but I hope people can see through that. But my idea here is that, you know, to be a conscious person, Person is good. It drives you to excel and into excellence. And the problem with having a consciousness, if you have too much of it, it's not good for you. You will be stressed, especially when the expectations exceed your possibility to deliver on these expectations, which is more or less the definition of stress, is that you have the right amount of expectations on what you should deliver on, then you can't deliver. And if you can't deliver, you will, you know, you will be stressed and you will not be in a good place. So just to add that, conscious people. And if you have, then if you are some person who would like to exceed your first, your type of learners, then, and combine that with number 2, then you have an interesting combination. I have seen many of my coaching clients that are in that state, both of them, both states, and it's good. You have motivation, which is the most important thing you can have. If you have motivation and inspiration to learn Getting Things Done, I don't know, I don't really care where you take it from as long as you have it, because the motivation will force you to learn Getting Things Done. And it is, I talked to a coaching client today, actually, about, should I learn Getting Things Done? That's not a motivational speech to your brain. It's, you're giving your brain the free pass. Not really, you're saying. But if you tell yourself, I I want to and I will learn getting things done. I will. It's just a matter of time. Then you will program your brain for being more successful. My client today realized that she needed to go from, you know, should to will. I will learn. And that is going to help her. So I think that you could be helped by the same thing, you, our dear listener, if you will and want to learn getting things yourself, I will, then you have a success rate that's a lot higher. But if you don't have the motivation, Loris, what have you seen? Where did— where do you see the— your typical, you know, GTDers start with getting things done? Which elements?

Lars: Yeah, we start off— for those of you familiar with the Horizons of Focus, we start at the bottom, meaning we start to focus on where you are right now. And getting things under control. And the experience is that once you start to get things under control, you'll naturally raise your perspective and start looking more into the horizon and, and seeing where you actually want to steer. But specifically, what is most important for you when you start off, that, that really differs from person to person. So, so we'll focus on, on the 5 steps, first episodes of this podcast as well, for those of you who haven't heard them yet. And, um, which ones people pick up first is, is really different from person to person. Some of you have tried the GTDQ test and noticed where you landed in each of those quadrants. For those of you who haven't tried it, recommend you Google that and try that out, and you'll be attracted to different steps depending on what type of person you are. And just, you know, for myself, the simplest place to start was to write things down. So step 1, capture. Really start to get all that stuff out of your head. It was— it's so funny and interesting to reflect on every time I do because it seems like such a basic fundamental skill that we should all have is to simply write these things down. Why don't we just do this instinctively? Because your mind is for having ideas, not holding them. So for me, just that simple practice of starting to write things down, that was really sort of a— I wouldn't say it was attractive, the step in itself. I'm not the that attracted to, or wasn't at least at that time attracted to, you know, focusing on brainstorming and grabbing those big ideas out there. I just wanted to clear the deck and get that stuff out of the way. So the feeling that showed up afterwards, once I had started to implement the subsequent steps and gotten into the weekly review and all that, that feeling afterwards was really what was the motivating driver.

Morten: Now, one of the things that I think that we owe the listeners to remind them of is that Underlying the whole methodology of Getting Things Done, both the horizons of focus and the control part with the 5 steps of GTD, is the idea that you just mentioned, Lars, that your head is for having ideas, not holding them. And by that, we mean that your head should be empty for anything that has your attention, but the one thing you're working with now. So, or focusing on now, if that is to focus on the big project or being with your child, to be fully present, or your wife or your spouse or family member or just a friend or in a meeting at work, you decide what should have your attention. If you don't decide that, something else decides it for you. And the idea with Getting Things Done is that you should park reminders of everything you need to get done outside your head so it doesn't move back in your brain. And then, because if you are trying to reflect on more than one thing at a time, things, you know, you're working on something or you are focusing on something, then something else comes into your brain, you will multitask. Multitasking does not work. Google, does multitasking work? Look at, do the multitasking tests you can find on YouTube. No, it doesn't work. And it's tiresome. It makes you tired more quickly, it lowers your IQ, takes longer time, minimum 50% longer time, and it increases your possibility to, to make mistakes with 50%. So don't do multitasking. That's the idea. So how can you stop with that? On a practical notion, well, the first step, you start with capture. You have to get things out of your head into a system where your brain trusts that it will not slip. So when you start writing things down, it should be in a system that your brain trusts. It should be in one place, not in like 100 different places, preferably. At least not too many, as few as you can get away with. And then just start writing things down. And when you've done that for some time, what happens, Loris? What happens when you've done that for a little while?

Lars: Well, the way I like to describe how it worked for me was really to, you start writing things down, clarify and organize, as I'm sure most of our listeners are familiar with, getting that system set up so you can reflect on that, do your weekly review, use that system to support you in making the right decision for what you should be doing at any given point in time. So for me, just that process of getting into the habit of using the system and then starting to notice what really has your attention, as David would also say, There are things out there that you just don't see. And I see that a lot in coaching clients. And I think that's probably a key point for many listeners to also reflect on their own GTD practice. I think we have a lot of seasoned GTD listeners out there that can probably recognize how they started off with GTD, started to make a sort of maybe a simple GTD system with all the ongoing basic stuff at work right now, and then started to notice more things and would write more things down and start to build on that system until you got through all of the things that are going on in your life right now and starting to notice these things and getting them into that system. I think that's a really key phase to get to. So once you have everything going on in your life right now in that system, just on the ground level and horizon one on the project level, getting all that stuff set up. So only the new stuff that shows up in your life is what is impacting your system. That's a great place to get to.

Morten: Yeah. And when people start to learn GTD, the first thing you will probably start with is start emptying your head, because that's, you know, step one. But when you've done that, and if you don't then do something about what you've written down, your list will grow. You will put more and more on it, but you, and you maybe you will tick something off because you decided to do something about it, but you are not Deciding what these things mean to you and if you need to do something about it at all. And that is what you mentioned, is clarify. So that's, you know, the next step that will force itself through is that you need to clarify and organize things into your list. If not, it will move back into your brain. Your, your mind will take it back if you don't trust that you are actually going to move forward on this. So, as you say, clarify and organize and reflect on a general basis, often, as often as you need, but at least once a week with Getting Things Done methodology says. And then you can engage with things. And this has been my pet peeve or my, I don't know, there's another expression for the same thing, but my pet peeve with people when you start learning Getting Things Done and you are not good at clarifying You need to be better at clarifying, you know, clear next actions, physical, but a verb where you have everything you need and you write that down. Don't just drag an unclear email in somewhere and then put it in your system without clarifying. And make good decide outcomes so that you know how your finishing line is looking. Do a better job on that.

Lars: I'm doing that this morning with a coaching client who is actually a pretty seasoned, pretty good GTDer. But there were some, some projects lists that had started to just contain, you know, single word items. That looks like something we need to talk about. So walking through them, looking at it, had some good support material. So it was pretty clear and pretty easy to figure out what this was relating to. But thinking that through and actually finding the right description for the desired outcome, that was just a key step in that. And that is really, like you say, it's a key part of the foundation level, as we would describe it also when we talk about the Level 1, Level 2, Level 3 seminars that we offer in the Nordics and around the world. From a definition perspective, I just looked at it and, you know, it's basics of day-to-day control, clear processing of outcomes and next actions, clear categories of reminders, collection and backlog under control, and regular weekly review, sustain the system.

Morten: Yeah. So, but for you getting started with Getting Things Done, the 5 steps will, if you start at step number 1, beware, because the others will, you need to commit to them. It will give you just to write things down, it's going to give you a relief, it's going to help you. But when you put things into your system, you clarify and organize them into your system in a good manner. I've seen that over and over again when you do that, what kind of energy it releases in the, in the person. It's like, it's a lighter step, it's more in control, more overview. And some people understand, I have too much to do, but now they have a place where they can look at everything that they have too much to do and then make qualified decisions. What should I do with that, if anything? Or should I just stay in the I-have-too-much-to-do state? But when you're clear, when you, you captured, you clarified, you organized, then you have to be really good at or get better at the weekly review and take that seriously and do it as weekly as you can or feel. Because a lot of people don't do it weekly because they don't feel the need or they don't have the time or something, some other excuse. But one of the things I would highly recommend people is, if you can't do a full weekly review with a checklist of getting things done for a weekly review, then do a light version. Just look at your calendar. What happened last week? What's going to happen the next few weeks? Is there something that you're missing, something you need to prepare, something you lost, something you forgot to do? And just to do that, and then just a quick, quick overview of your lists that is often enough to bring you back into the control seat of your, you know, into your dashboard, if you may, and control of your life and work. And to not do a weekly review is not recommended. Do a light one if you can't do a real one. It's better than nothing. Just do a little. Little is better than nothing. So don't go for perfection. Just go for what you can. Find time in your reality, but know that if you don't do it, that's not good, because then things are going to move into your brain again and start nagging you, because your brain is a wise, a little confused thing. It's wise that it will try and remind you of the things you've not done if it is not parked somewhere. But if it's parked somewhere where your brain can trust it, your brain relaxes. If your brain don't trust that something is handled well, or it's, you know, I feel I don't know if this project is well, I don't remember the state of this, where is this project, it will move back into your brain. And it will start nagging you and you are back to square one where you have to empty your head again, do the capture, and then, you know, clarify and organize. But if you captured, clarify and organized, and do a weekly review as often as you can do it weekly. And then you have a place where you can engage with everything that you have decided to do something about when you have time or when you put it in your calendar and you prioritize it. It's urgent and important, put it on the calendar. So when you are at the ground level of GTD, did you have a comment, Lars?

Lars: No, just, it's just, you know, as we talk our way through this and— and I imagine much of this to be familiar for many of our listeners. It's also, it's so interesting to, you know, think about each of those steps and the details in each of those steps and know how much depth there is in each one of them. So it's, you know, when we talk about these, and that's, I think, often why people mistake this and think, oh, that sounds so easy and I already do this, so why would, why would I need GTD? There's just so many levels in each of these. That you could dive into. What you capture as you start off with GTD, you capture the stuff that directly has your attention, what's going on right now. As you progress with GTD, some of the more fluffy, deeper stuff will show up and you'll get into the habit of capturing them and that'll trigger new levels in your GTD system. And like you said, you dove in a bit into clarify and organize, really doing good clarification, having good lists, having the right list for you with the right contents on there, doing good weekly reviews. It's, you know, that weekly review check is just— I know for many coaching clients, even though you've been doing GTD for 10 years, there'll still be steps where you might be able to do things better. And part of the path of GTD mastery is also to reflect on your own practice. And that's also what I did with this client this morning, talk our way through this. And he had already noticed that there was something wrong. He's really, really good at noticing when something is a bit off. We've noticed it in his capture step. We noticed this now in his weekly review, which was actually a reflection on his system on some projects that weren't where they needed to be from a definition perspective. So, there's just so many different levels and perhaps this is a good time to dive into the 5 I's that we could maybe steer over to.

Morten: Yeah, I don't have them in an overview. You might want to give them to us.

Lars: Yeah, sure, because I just wanted to show them because they— so, this is something that we do in the Level 2 seminar. We walk through this And this, I think, was sort of a good, at least awareness for me when I started off with GTD, or actually when I attended the Level 2 seminar, is where we— so just a quick recap, Level 1 seminars where we focus on projects and next actions. In the Level 2 seminar, we look a bit higher and focus on partly on the higher horizons as well, your areas of focus, also natural planning model checklist and things like that. And as part of that seminar, we also look at the path of GTD. Mastery Matrix. And in that, that's where the foundation that I mentioned earlier comes from. We also look at the 5 I's, which are different stages and how familiar you are with, with each of these. And the first I is information, meaning I have enough information to engage on this topic. Second I is instruction, meaning I understand how to do it if I wanted to. The third I is installation, meaning I have a working structure with real content in it. Implementation is the fourth I, that is, I'm utilizing key components consistently. And the fifth I is integration, which means that I am focused on the results my trusted system is allowing me to produce. So this is just a natural way for you to work these different things. So that's the top bar. And then, and then down is where you have the foundation, you have the totally integrated system. And the last headline is dynamic orientation on these.

Morten: 5 I's. Exactly. So to go to the last step of the last I into integration, it's going from building a habit and then it becomes a routine where you don't have to think about the habit. You don't have to think about doing it. It just happens. It's like when you and I now come across something that we might want to do something about, or, you know, want to do something about, you will write it down immediately. You will find your capture tool and get it out of your head. And you don't have to think about that process. It just happens because you understand, you have your mind is set for, look, tell me about things I might want to do something about or that I will do something about. And then when you have one of those thoughts in your brain, your brain will go up with a red flag saying, hey, Hey, Loris, now you have to write this down. You should do that, shouldn't you? And the logical, commonsensical part of your brain says, yes, you are absolutely correct. Let me write that down. And then you just do that. And without thinking about the process, without thinking about that it has to be done. The same with the Clarify and Organize. You will not have to think about the Clarify workflow map. You know, to make decisions, it will happen without you having to think about it. It will just be your modus operandi, or the MO, if you may, for how you handle all the potential commitments and things you might want to do something about. So, where do you want to take us after the Five Eyes? Do you have an idea, Lars? Because we can go in many different directions.

Lars: Yeah, no, so, but that is of course where you start with DCD. You start with the foundation, you get those 5 steps and support you in getting things under control. But as we hinted at, you know, there will be these other levels, whether we take them from the perspective of the Horizons of Focus or the different levels that we have in the Practitioner Competency Evaluation that we discussed in a previous episode. If we take that as a starting point, the next level over that is the totally integrated system, meaning that we have the basics of week-to-week control as opposed to day-to-day control in the foundation level. You regularly recalibrate your project inventory, which is one that I benefited a lot from, as I've mentioned on several episodes, something that I need to keep an eye on. We have topic development and project planning skills, and the last one is sustainable total life management system in place and working. That would be the next level above.

Morten: Exactly. And it is just, you know, a way to describe the path. But on the practical level, where, when you have your, you know, your, I will not use that word. It's some rated word. When you get your together, and you are ducks in a row, and with your control part with, you know, the 5 steps, then you naturally would like to focus up on the— in more in the horizons part where you might want to look at. Because when you get the 5 steps working for you, get everything, you get control of everything, then you can use that if you want to, to gain more clarity on what's important for you so that you are making value-based decisions on what, what you decide to do something about, what you say yes and what you say no to. And as I've said many times before, this is maybe old news for people, but when you say no to something, you say yes to something else and vice versa. So because you have— there is more to do than there is time, and so make sure you say yes to only the right things. And but how do I know what is the right things? Well, you have to take a step up the Horizons ladder where you step up from your projects and up to the areas of focus and responsibility. What am I responsible for on, you know, personal and work-related areas? What am I being measured on, or what do I want to measure me on? And from there, you can take a step up the ladder for goals. More long-term goals, 12 to 24 months-ish, and then step up from there. What is the vision of my— when I live the life I want to, when am I— I'm living my life purpose. And sorry, when I, when I live my values, how does that look? And what is my purpose? And what is my values and what's my principles. So you make more maybe correct or value-based decisions on what you, what you decide to do something about. Um, but how would you recommend somebody get started with that?

Lars: Yeah, that's a good question. Um, it really depends on, on which path we, we take. So when it comes to to coaching. It really depends on what seems to make the most sense for the client. I think overall for many people, and again, that's also how the seminars are built, getting that level, that Horizon 2 areas of focus and accountability, getting that one clear, or at least just a draft. I think that just provides so much value and just really opens up the higher horizons to dive into and explore and see where that takes you. It just is, it's such a nice way for me. It works very well, worked very well to start from the bottom up and look into the areas of focus and accountability, being aware of those, then looking into the future. So where should they be? Where do I need to be or want to go? And then really asking yourself, so why should I go there? And start to really get an understanding of the higher horizons. So for me, that was a good way to go. I just wish that we could take all GTDers, everyone that knew GTD, and support them in getting to that level. I really, really, really wanted to go there because I just know from my own use of GTD, I benefited so much from the basics. So I did not really understand how much more there was. And now I'm disappearing somewhere in the video. Sorry about that. No, as I was saying, I really If I knew how much more there was to GTD, that would have really been beneficial for me. So I had a lot of value from understanding having a clear projects list, having my list of next actions, all of that good stuff for me, but understanding that there was so much more to gain and getting that clear overview, understanding what was waiting for me in being clearer on the higher horizon.. And I think just that horizon too, that areas of focus and accountability, drafting that as a mind map, as a list, whatever works for you, but just the clarity and the information and the awareness on that level, that horizon is just— so that was at least for me, and I know for many coaching clients, such a triggering point in taking that GTD awareness to the.

Morten: Next level. So, so where would you take it from there?

Lars: Well, I think if we want to build on that last part, so we've talked about the foundation, the details on that one, the totally integrated system. The last one that we have is called headlined dynamic orientation. The key describing items here is ability to navigate change, execute on any outcome, aligned process and behaviors with all meaningful aspects of life and work, ability to generate situational awareness, room and clarity to focus on that which is most meaningful, and day-to-day is aligned with your bigger game. Those are the, the lines that describe the dynamic orientation aspect. And that's for me, I think it's more, well, if I'm just reflecting on how people then evaluate themselves on this scale, I think if you'll go back and find that episode where we shared this Practitioner Competency Evaluation, I believe this is part of it. If not, then I'll see what I can do to share it. But when we walk through this in the Level 2 seminars, for me, it's always interesting to see how people rate themselves because obviously the people that attend the Level 2 seminar are people that are interested in GTD. So they'll often score fairly well on the Foundation or Some people are a bit hard on themselves and know that they could be doing more, could be better at these things. And, you know, we, we can probably all do that, but they'll, they'll relatively frequently score themselves pretty high on the, the foundation part. But where they then place themselves on the, the remaining sections, totally integrated system, dynamic orientation, and that'll, that'll differ a bit from, from, from person to person. And I think, you know, some people will benefit a lot from just the foundation part in their ability to navigate change, for example.. So they'll be pretty quick at capturing, you know, or understanding, okay, now this showed up. Now I need to reprioritize. Now I need to regroup and figure out how to then, you know, work on the right things now since this new thing showed up, for example. So there'll be aspects of that that they've already picked up. And I think once you have that foundation part under control, so, so ground level projects, once you get the higher horizons more clear, and we'll work on that level 2 and level 3 seminars, and then tying all that up together to the final one, which we, which I mentioned, which was the day-to-day is aligned with your bigger game. That one for me is just, yeah, wow, you're doing well. If you feel that, you know, the absolute right thing for me, all things considered, is this email or this call or this meeting or whatever it might.

Morten: Be, that's a cool place to be. It is. It is. And the feeling of Being right where you, and maybe if you want to put it in a little higher dimension, the universe wants you to be, if you believe in that. That is a good place, you know, to feel comfortable that what I'm doing right now is exactly the right thing I could be doing. One of the things that we have not touched upon that are tools in this to you know, the path of GTD mastery, you can read David's books if you want to have more on the higher horizon parts. It's both in the Getting Things Done book, but also in the Making It All Work, where you can get some more information on the higher horizons. And, but one tool that we not mentioned, but that I would like us to touched upon is something that is on Level 2 in our Level 2 seminars, is the Natural Planning Model, which is also a big step up for a lot of people when you are trying to, you know, create good projects for yourselves. Um, could you give us, you know, an overhead overview of that model?

Lars: Yeah, sure. So the Natural Planning Model is really also a, you know, that can really also, like you said, level up your GTD game in, you know, being able to dive more into those projects. We actually have a listener question for a future episode where I think actually just the natural planning model will be the exact right one. But the 5 steps in the natural planning model, first of all, defining the purpose of these more complex, more creative projects where you can dive into really understanding the purpose behind it all is a great way to think through one of those projects, especially if they are cross-team projects. I think that's one of the key things for me that has really been helpful in my own experience. Once you have the purpose, you can draft the vision, or you have the purpose and standards principles, then you have the vision for where you want to be. So, wild success, what does that look like? Defining that very clear picture in when you are done with this, what does the world look like, and that can have, have many different levels also for the different stakeholders involved. Once you have that nice vision, you can go in and brainstorm and get all the ideas out for where, how do we, you know, we are here right now, this is where we want to be, what needs to happen for us to get there. So brainstorm and get all that stuff out there. Once that is done, once you feel like you've brainstormed and, and thrown all that stuff in the mind map or whatever format works for you, then we can start to organize them. That's the fourth step, getting that, you know, this is the first step, then we do this, then we do this. And lastly, of course, finding the next action. So how do we actually get moving on each of the parts that makes.

Morten: Sense for us to move on at this point? Yeah. And to get good at this, you can, you can read the book and you can also participate in the level 2 seminars where this is an integrated part of the seminar. Or you can get coaching if you want, if you want somebody to teach you to do this. But because it is really a powerful tool, it is the way that you can take something that is unclear, you know, that we talked about, you know, and make, create unclear projects on your projects list, and that's going to clear, you know, your brain is going to go, oh, you've not done a good job there, I know this, now I will take it back and I will bug you. Your brain will tell you, but so to avoid that, and to get clarity on your projects, that is, the natural planning model is gold and a definite step up. So where do we.

Lars: Go from here? I just, you know, I hope this episode supports you in, you know, just reflecting on where you are in your own GTD. Practice. And again, being aware of where you might be able to benefit more from GTD. Like I said, there was a huge step up for me in, in learning about the higher horizons, diving into them. I know from seminar participants that they, they really get that deeper level of understanding and then seeing those examples and working with other people. We'll do that in— we'll probably play with that as well in the summer camp. So gtdsommercamp.com. Hope to see you there. Quick plug. No, but, you know, seeing those examples, I think that really is very helpful. I understand in the GCD book why it's not possible to dive into too many examples, because it will just be so different from person to person. So I think there's a lot of value in the seminar specifically that obviously we're biased because we deliver them. But I think there is— that's what we hear from a lot of seminar participants, that they get a much deeper level of understanding, much more easy to, to get into these higher horizons when you sit there and you walk through the materials, see some examples on what this might look like. Um, that, that's, that's a great way of working. Hopefully this inspired some people to play around with it. Like I said, you don't need to attend a seminar to, to, to work your way through this, but just, you know, play with them and understand that there might be more, and the value that lies in that. What you have now from GTD, there might be several levels above that. And maybe this episode can help you.

Morten: Reflect on that and hopefully move you towards that. Yeah. And I'm sure you will make a link available in the show notes for that, the evaluation you mentioned earlier. So that if you want to— sorry? Let me capture that. Yes, please do. So that our listeners can take that evaluation, especially this is valuable for you who are, you know, started your GTD journey and would like to understand more what am I missing, what am I not doing well. It's like, you know, it's an evaluation where you give yourself score from 1 to 5 or non-applicable. So if you don't use paper, you write not applicable for everything that has to do with paper, but it is a very good tool for you to understand where am I in my path to GTD mastery, which was the topic of the episode. And what is helpful for most of you out there, I hope, who are listening to this podcast, that is that we made an episode about everything in this methodology and then some. So if you want to learn and you don't want to participate in the class or get a coaching, you can listen and learn. But if, if not, we hope to see you. And, and, you know, you did a quick plug for the GTD Summer Camp, gtdsommercamp.com, in June in Denmark, 2 days in a weekend with other GTDers. It's, um, where there's a nonprofit where all the, the trainers that will arrive or attend will work for free. We pay our own way to go there. So just to hang out with you guys. And if you want to hang out with us and learn more about getting things done, it's open for the whole world. So if you want to travel from Guatemala or the United States or wherever you're from, or as we call it, the extended Nordic version of the Nordics, please feel free. You are most welcome. I think we are ready to for you to take us out, Lars.

Lars: Will you take us out? We are. We always wrap up these episodes with a quick reminder to head on over to gtdnordic.com. That's where we'll find links to each of the country websites for the Nordic countries. And on those sites, you will find the seminars that are delivered in that country or coaching, how to learn more about speeches, both the physical and the virtual ones, read more about GTD, sign up for the newsletters, find links to groups on social media, meetups, etc. If you are outside the Nordics, gettingthingsdone.com is the place to go to find your local partners. And lastly, as always, we hope that these episodes support you in learning more about GTD, becoming an even better GTDer. If so, please help us share this, share the message of this podcast by giving it a rating on Apple iTunes, Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I checked relatively recently, so thanks for all the nice comments and ratings around the world. It's fun to see, and it's fun to see your feedback. So thanks, thanks so much for that. It really helps other people discover and.

Morten: Learn GTD, which is why we are here. It helps motivate us to continue doing them. So if you want us to continue, please motivate us. We hope to motivate you to learn more about Getting Things Done. Maybe you want to motivate us to motivate you. So if you like it, please, please do. So, well, then I have only one thing to say, which I always say, is until next time, stay safe and stay productive. Bye-bye.

Lars: Bye, everyone.