Episode 129 of the Getting Things Done® podcast. Listen above, or read the full transcript below.
Transcript
Automatically transcribed and lightly edited. Timestamps omitted for readability.
Morten: Hi and welcome to another episode of the Getting Things Done podcast from Vital Learning. I am Morten Røvik, and as always, I'm here with my good friend and colleague Lars Rothschild Henriksen. Privet, Lars.
Lars: Privet, Morten. Good to see you as always, and it's always good to be with our listeners and viewers out there. We always start off with a quick reminder of the purpose of the podcast, which is to help you learn GTD or become even better GTDers. We hope that today's episode supports you in that. If you are new to GTD, we always recommend you go back and listen to the audio versions of episodes 1 through 6 to get an introduction to the basics of GTD, the 5 steps. Today's episode number is number 129 of the podcast, and today's episode is a listener questions episode and perhaps also a look back on this year's GCD Summer Camp.
Morten: It is. And for those of you with keen eyes on YouTube, you will find that something is new with Lars.
Lars: Yes, indeed. This is the first episode from our new house. So we have moved in officially, at least the address change has been made. Are we done moving in? No. Absolutely not. Will we be done by the next episode? Let's see. At least, at least I was able to clean up the area behind the camera. So at least to, to a certain extent. So yeah, this, this will be the first episode from the, from the new house.
Morten: Yes, it will. And then it is, I don't know if pre-GGD, I had the boxes that was unpacked in my house for about, you know, 2 years after. So let's see if next, next recording will.
Lars: Yeah.
Morten: So well done, well done with your packing. And the listener question is about how to avoid burnout. Would you like just to read it first and then we can start reminiscing?
Lars: Let's go for it. Actually, this kind of leads us back to the summer camp as well, because this is from a summer camp participant. This is a question from Ida. She says, hi Lars, hi Morten. Firstly, I want to say thank you for arranging an amazing GTD summer camp. This year was my first time attending and I enjoyed it immensely. My practice definitely gained both from new ideas and inspiration. After the summer camp, I spent a few days seeing friends and colleagues in Denmark. One evening I was having dinner with two amazingly bright colleagues who have both suffered from burnout, one more recently than the other. I was telling them about the summer camp and we got talking about GTD. They had both read the book, but explained that when you're in the burnout, just the thought of doing a mind sweep was just so overwhelming that you can't do it somehow, because seeing everything in your mind is trying to remember on paper becomes too much. My question then is if you have any suggestions on how I can introduce GTD as a help to someone who's in the middle of burnout and who hasn't really implemented GTD before. Are there any elements you suggest starting with? How can it be less overwhelming? Best regards from Ida.
Morten: Very good question, Ida. Thank you for that. And I'd like to spin this back to you, Lauris. Have you ever been— and just for people to, you know, you are a professed non-burnouter, if that's a word. Not yet, at least. But it is— just want to say to people, even though you have GTD, it is possible to burn yourself out.
Lars: Oh yeah.
Morten: Yeah. So my question back to you, Lars, is have you ever been at the brink where the overwhelm is a little too much and you feel your stress level rises? Have you been there?
Lars: I think that's a problem, right? With, with stress in general, that you don't really know what the breaking point is and when you hit it. So have I been close to the line? I don't know. Probably, maybe.
Morten: But you've been there where the stress level rises.
Lars: Yeah. Well, it's, yeah, I don't, yeah, of course. I mean, you, you experience times when too many things are going on and, and, and try to, try to work with that. And of course GCD helps with that, but That's why we have, you know, one of the, one of the things we teach you in the training now is how to say no, because even, you know, a great GCD can still suffer from burnout. And perhaps it's even, you know, something to be very mindful of because as you start to get really good at getting stuff done, you will take on more challenging tasks and you perhaps take on more work. So, Perhaps I have been there. I guess my best guess would be that I would have been approaching that a couple of years back because I think we both around the same time tried to, you keep talking about the combine harvester, right? That whether it's really wide or really narrow and we, I think at least if I can speak for myself, trying to limit the number of projects and getting that down to a level that I feel comfortable with. I think that's probably a reaction to some point where there was probably too much going on, slowing down the frequency of the new podcast episodes that we publish, things like that. So that might have been a reaction to that. At least that'd be my best guess.
Morten: Yeah. What's different between you and someone who's in a burnout is that you had the wisdom to listen to your body at some point telling you it's enough now. I reached a level where I have to say no. And what I've seen so many times with, you know, my coaching clients and myself is that it is really difficult to know when that is, you know, when you are there. And that is probably one of the things I would recommend to anyone who's getting close to or maybe getting close to a burnout is ask yourself, are you listening to your body? Because if you're not listening to your body, your body will— your stress level in your body will tell you if you're on route for something like this. If you get a stress level rises, even though you have a GTD system, or maybe if you don't have it at all, but when the stress level rises, that's a signal from your body that something in your world and life is— you have cognitive dissonance on. And the challenge there is to feel that. And I just want to take an anecdote from my own life, is that when I did this, when I did my first burnout, I realized that, you know, kind of like if there's a notch on my, you know, belt or somewhere, like, hey, I burned out. No, you don't want this. Okay. So the idea, at least for me, was that When the stress level rises and the commitments that you have committed to, either you committed yourself to something or somebody you committed to do something for someone else, it doesn't really matter what's the source of them are. But if the commitments are so many and so complex that it rises over your ability to do something, that's what we call the Dodson Jerks, Dodson law in psychology is that when the level of commitment rises above your ability to do something about them, you know, to execute on them and get them under control, then the stress level rises. And then when you have that stress level rising and you don't have an, you know, you don't listen to your body— like, my anecdote is from So many times I felt something was wrong. I don't know what it is. I'm getting irritated because I'm focusing, trying to get things done and trying to move things along and really, really focusing on them. And something is really wrong in this world. I don't know what it is. And then suddenly it dawns on me. I need to go to the toilet. And I should have gone to the toilet for the last 30 minutes. Or more. And it is really, and you know, so if that's you, that's a signal from your body. You should be taking care of you and being more careful. Have you ever had that, Lars, where you kind of like suddenly had to go to the toilet because you're suddenly realizing something?
Lars: No, that does not ring a bell, I'm sorry to say.
Morten: Okay. Okay. Well, not sorry to say, you should be happy to say this, but for me, that was kind of the stress level rises and you need to deliver on something, you can't deliver on something, and then you're trying to focus and then these irritating things happening to your body. So for me, I would recommend anyone thinking about, you know, maybe you are are moving towards a burnout is to, one, you can do a burnout test. I think we linked to one of those before, haven't we, Loris?
Lars: Like, I think so. At least we did the burnout episode. We had the link to the stress curve overview. So it's out there somewhere. I'll find it and add it in the show notes.
Morten: Yes, please do, because that might be good. And there is a burnout test online, just a PDF you can fill in, and it's very rudimentary, but it will give you an indication at least if you're heading towards one. So, but if you are inside one, it doesn't matter if you have a— well, it helps if you have a GTD system because it helps you get out of it. One of the things that I found, that when you are having a GTD system, you can be thrown out of control and then you can get back to it if you have a wholesome a good GTD system where you have identified all the things that you need to get done, that you committed to, and then you can start pausing them and moving them out of, into on-pause. We've talked about this in previous episodes where you can balance your workday and work-life balance by scaling down. The combined harvester must be— you must have less projects active, and you use the on hold or pause folder for that. You can pull things into that. But if you don't have that, you don't have a GTD system, then your whole world is chaos. Your whole world of commitments is overwhelming. And the Everything you are not doing at the moment stresses you. And there is a lot you're not doing in the moment because you can't. You are blocked by the burnout. If you're, you know, at least what I've seen so many times with people I've coached and myself is that if you are in that burnout, let's call it state, it is almost impossible to get out of it. With your own will. Because it is your will that is the problem. You have committed to too many things. You're overloading your mental capacity. And you've done it willingly. It's bizarre. But that's the way it is. And when you get to a point where all the things that are— and then if you add upon the complexity of life, things happen to you, Let's say you lost a job or you got divorced or you have a child that doesn't behave and a lot of different things that can stress you. But then that adds on top of the task-related stress and burnout. But when you are in this mode, it is very difficult to think about anything. But when you wake up in the morning, you are scared. You have anxiety levels that's over your head and you don't want to go out. If you're really there, that's how it is. And, but I do believe that even though you are there, one of the things I will highly recommend anyone is just write down everything you're not doing right now that you think you maybe should have done something about. Just write them down. And when you've had that, everything that you, you know, that it's the mind sweep idea. So just write down everything you're not doing right now that you think you might should have done. And then look at it. Look at the endless list and it will overwhelm you, but it is not in your head anymore. And then tell yourself, not now, not now. Now I'm healing. What I've seen so many times, I don't know if you've felt this, but when you are in the overwhelmed state, it is very difficult to tell yourself, slow down. Because everything in your mind and body has trained you to do, you need to speed up to catch up. But that is a lie. What you need to do is just let go. Let go of everything. Say, today I'm not going to do anything, not anything. And then just stay in that not anything as long as you can. And then ask yourself, what can I do now? At some point, your, your brain and your, your psyche will tell you, well, maybe I can try something. And then, which is good, then do that little something and see how it feels. The problem is that when you are in this state of burnout, if it's task-related that I'm talking about now, you have too much to do that you, you or other have committed you to do, then it's very difficult. Then you become your own worst enemy because your, your desire to, to, to execute is higher than your level of execution. And so you always want to close that gap, but your body will tell you when you're in the right spot, because then you will not feel overwhelmed and stressed. And that is, I think, one of the most important things that I can say about this is stay where you are. Don't move out before you are ready. And make sure that, um, make sure that you are not exceeding, you know, your wanting to do more. It must be in, you know, within the level of comfort. So if you feel, I'm doing, you know, I want to do something, and that level of commitment rises, and then your stress level rises with them, then Scale down. Not now, not now. And if you talk to people around you, if you talk to your colleagues or your friends or your family, telling them, I'm here now, I really need to become myself again, I need to scale down, that means this and that. And I ask, can we please work on this together? I need your help. Just be open on where you are and ask for help. Does that make sense, Lars? Does it?
Lars: Yeah.
Morten: Yeah.
Lars: No. And I really like the, and we've probably talked about this before, but I really like the idea of just writing it down, but already knowing that I'm not committing to anything, or at least what I'm committing to doing is actually not doing anything about them. So I get to write down all the stuff, but, but not feel that I should be doing it. Obviously, you know, this, this might not be easy when you're in that state, But, but that makes, that makes a lot of sense. And it also lines up with what I initially wrote back to Ida, you know, and starting off, starting off small. But I think that makes a lot of sense to try to, because obviously that would be still the first step. It's, and I think she probably knows that that was the challenge because that was sort of the starting point for her as well that, you know, okay, so the minesweep, where do we actually they start. And yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense.
Morten: Yeah. I'm thinking that if you are in, that you feel that your stress level rises because you have committed to too many things, then what I've just walked you through could be a help for you. But I've also, there is, burnout is so many different things. It can be anything from, it can come from, I am a new parent and my toddler is keeping me up at night, you know, and I can't sleep and I have commitments at work that I can't deliver on. And because of all of that, that can lead to a burnout as well. So it's not only that, you know, you have some commitments that you can't say, well, I used to be a parent, but not anymore. But what you can do is ask the people around you, in your network and your family, help me, I really need help. I don't know if, you know, Lars has 3 young boys. And have you ever been, as a father or as a couple, been close to feeling it's a little too much now? And how did you, if so, handle it?
Lars: Yeah, I don't remember any specific situations where that has come up. But obviously, being a parent of any young children can be overwhelming. I think where I've seen it the most is probably the— or at least one example that comes to mind is aligning on standards, getting everyone ready in the morning. How nice does the lunchbox have to look? We want to make sure that they're healthy, that they're eating right. But do we have to, you know, cut the apples in star shapes every morning? You know, can we find a certain level? I'm just making this up. I hope my wife is not listening to this episode. No, but can we, you know, align on those standards? I think that's probably the starting point for for me. And again, accepting, you know, the 24 hours in a day, you can do one thing at a time. And yeah, we can do anything but not everything. I think that's probably the first example that comes to mind, at least for me. And it's a whole lot of work, a lot of planning and a lot of activities going on with younger children.
Morten: It is. It is. And But I will then go back to the, you know, if you are there, it is too much for you, then talk to your spouse, talk to your partners, talk to your family and your work colleagues, your friends, and ask for help. I assure you that they are more understanding than you are. Yeah, because I've seen that when I ask people for help or I explain the situation, people do not go into the, "Oh, you must do more." You never see this. No, it is more like, okay, that's not a problem. Let's work around this. Let's help you. And I, in the pre-show, I told you that I've had to say no to things because now it's, I looked at my calendar and Mid to late August is kind of like, it looked a little too crazy for me and where I really have to scale down because I know that if I've done that, I will be a wet rag on the floor after because it is just too much to do, too much pressure. And so, but then I talked to our managing director here in Norway and I said, I need to scale down here. And of course he's understanding and said, okay, then we will work around that and find a solution. And that was a relief for me in that I noticed that as a stress in my body, getting closer to when the dates are coming. And listening to the body and taking your body seriously is important. Okay. Should we change gear and go to the summer camp?
Lars: Yeah, I think just one addition from my end also, somewhat aligned with the things that that you mentioned as well. To perhaps, yeah, I like the idea of the generic mind sweep. One thing that I wrote back to Ida was also perhaps to start off small, that you don't have, you know, feel that you have to do the big mind sweep of your whole life. Sit down and write down everything going on in your personal life, work life, all of your ambitions and life purpose. But perhaps start off small. Can you, can you start off with a small mind sweep relating to a specific project at work and start maybe training yourself to build a small GTD system that at least supports you in that area? And perhaps, you know, that's going to take a while, obviously, to get up and running and feel the ways of working and adjust GTD to your own best practices. But Getting that, that started, I think, would be, would be one approach as well. If the, the general mind sweep would be too much, then, then, then start somewhere simple and see where that, that takes you. Perhaps start on paper. I think that's, that's perhaps a good starting point as well for people that are overwhelmed or in other ways impacted in their ability to, to, yeah, focus perhaps is the best way for me to explain it. To, to, to simplify and, and go for paper. That's one of the things that that I'm playing around with more, that I have my paper checklist. We'll talk more about that at the GTD Summer Camp Revisited. But trying out some of these things, I think, is really, it's probably, it's one area to start. And the other area that I would add is also, again, related to what you said with involving others and taking it from the GTD perspective might be looking at your areas of focus and accountability. So if you were able to do at least, you know, just an outline of that and just, you know, get a feel for where does all that work come from. And, you know, well, my boss assigned me this new area because we lost someone in the other department. So now I have to do all this extra work. Well, can we go back and discuss that one? Because if we could somewhere put the either a pause button or delete or remove whatever we want to call it, some of that work that came in, it's, you know, areas of focus that, that tree is just such a nice place to go looking, where can I find more room? And again, sometimes we have committed and there are too many high standards and sometimes it's, it's other people that have assigned this to us and maybe we can then go back to them, life partner, your boss, your colleague, whatever it might have been, and then see if we can park some of that. I think that could also be a help. For the colleagues that she mentioned. I don't know what you think.
Morten: Yeah, I do agree with you. The only caveat is that when you are burned out, you're totally overwhelmed, it's really difficult to do anything at all when, you know, just trying to. But if you are GTD or have some sort of a GTD system, yes, of course, But just writing things down and saying, I'm not going to do anything of this. I just need to get it out of my head. And telling myself that, okay, if I'm going to move, what would I move on? Like, talk to my boss about why I'm here, you know, and talk to my friends and family about this. That might be a good idea. So, yeah.
Lars: All right, then let's jump to the Summer Camp Revisited. So it's, uh, we did this last year as well, and it's, it's a nice look back. And obviously we, we, we do this also to try to share some of the good thoughts and, and ideas and inspiration that we got from attending yet another GTD Summer Camp. So, um, we always mention it at the end, but let's sneak it in here. gtdsommercamp.com is a good place to go to find more information about when we do it and, and what the plan is for next year and all that good stuff. So gtdsommercamp.com. And then, you know, so many, um, interesting, cool, fun people join us from all over the world. It's, uh, it's a great place to go. So whether you're really seasoned GTDer or new to this, we highly recommend that you join us at least once just to get a feel for what it's, uh, what it's like to be there.
Morten: Yeah, one of the things that I really like is that when you, when people start coming to the summer camp, they will come again and again and again because they, as people say, and at least it's true for me, I found my tribe, the people to hang out with, to nerd about getting things done and help and assist each other to, you know, get, getting things done under your skin so that it becomes more like second nature to you. So that's cool. And this year, it was really special. It was the 5th year we've done this. We had an anniversary. And on this anniversary, we had special guests. We had David and Catherine Allen there. And that was really a treat. So for me, that's one of the highlights to— well, David is a friend and I meet him on a regular basis. And, you know, we communicate. For the community to meet him. And since this was community-focused— community-focused.
Lars: Was the theme this year, exactly.
Morten: Yeah, so that people could meet David for the first time, maybe hang out, have a drink in the bar, listen to one of his stories. And one of the highlights for me was also when he got the book. From the community. This book was, was it born out of, how would you tell this book is, it's, I wrote it down, it's called Liber Amicorum, which is Latin for Letters from Friends or something like that.
Lars: My Latin is a bit rusty, I must admit.
Morten: No, you are Kidding. Okay. But Lars, why, while you, why you don't tell us about this book and I will look it up.
Lars: You can look it up. Yeah, no, it was, so as we learned that David and Katherine were joining us, I think this idea was bubbled up in perhaps even a bit south of Denmark. Some GTD enthusiasts sat sat down and figured this would be a good idea to do. I guess I'm giving credit to Joost out there, but maybe, maybe wrong on that one. But I think that was where the, at least the starting point that this was the concept was familiar from for him and quickly spread out. And I don't know if you found the original name now.
Morten: It is Liber Amicorum. I'm not sure this is Latin, but it got translated. And Just and Sebastian was the two originators from this. And if I now read from ChatGPT's translation, it's Book of Friends. Historically, a Liber Amicorum was a kind of friendship or autograph book popular in Europe, especially during the 16th to 19th centuries. Friends, colleagues, and acquaintances would write short messages, poems, drawings, or signatures in each other's books, often include date and location. And it can be seen as a personal handwritten social network at times, like Twitter on paper. But this was different because it was, if I recall this correctly, it also stemmed out of the thinking that it was around the campfire. When we are around the campfire, we tell stories. And this was the, the people in the GTD community stemmed out of, you know, the GTD summer camp. And I don't know if somebody else was invited to do this, but they will write stories about what Getting Things Done has done for them. How, how did GTD change your life? And those stories was printed into one book, just one copy. And I've not read any of the stories. That's for David and Catherine to do, or at least David. And I see, I saw him when he started, he got the book and he got interested and he started, you know, paging through it and he stopped and he started reading. I see his eyes tearing up. That was, that did it for me.
Lars: Yeah. Cool. Cool. I didn't, I didn't see that, but what I did see and how I know that he really appreciated that book was that I passed him in the hallway. So there's— their room was just next to mine at, uh, at Coolbeck where we do the, the GTD summer camp. And he, as he walked by, he said, this is, this is really cool. Um, so I know that he really, uh, really liked that. So it was nice for people to express their gratitude in that way. And yeah, no, great idea. And thanks to Sebastian and Joost for, for coming up with this and, uh, and getting that set up. I think that, um, Everyone appreciated that.
Morten: Yeah, and that it is. David has touched with his work so many people, and so many people are grateful for what he's done, what he's done, you know, for their life. Well, he showed them how to do things that makes your life better. That is also why Lars and I are doing this, is because it makes our lives better. And showing that gratitude in the form of, you know, a text to show your appreciation and enlighten what has happened to you because you started Buddhism, doing this, to a man that's now in his 80th year. He will be 80 years in December. And it is— imagine you've done something like this and people show your appreciation. Of course, that will touch you., you will be a rock if not.
Lars: So no, it was, that was, that was great. And, you know, great that, that we were able to, to give them that. And, and great that they were there. I mean, just, just, just hanging, hanging out was, was a lot of fun. And I heard that from a lot of people that were there as well, that they were able to just, you know, sit down and perhaps ask a few questions or just say hi or just buy them a glass of wine, whatever, you know, however they socialized with them. They were, they were really there, and it was just a treat to have them there. So, uh, great, great way to celebrate our 5th GTD summer camp.
Morten: And, um, just to segue for 2 seconds to, to something that's also something we would like to mention, is that there will be, um, the second GTD— and this is not the summer camp, this is the Masterclass Retreat. There is a link in the show notes to what that is, but it is, you know, an exclusive event where you can apply to be part of this. It's of course not free, but we are trying to find people that fits together, you know, that fits together in the context of maturity of GDD and where you are in life. And we did this in May last earlier this year, but next year in February and in September, there will be another two. One in February, David and Catherine has been, you know, they've said, yes, we will be there. And one in September, I don't know, we will see how life is and how David's health is, etc. But in the one in February is really interesting. One is going to be just 12 participants, and it's going to be with Lars and David and me, and maybe also Catherine Allen will join us for the coaching part. There will be coaching and trying to assist you in what we call the higher horizons. So get that under control. So that's just a simple— For once.
Lars: Let me steal the marketing cap here. Morten has made a really nice landing page with information about so you'll find a link to that in the show notes. But for once, let me put on the marketing cap and highly recommend you go there and just have a look because if, it looks really nice, it looks really good. And of course, if you might be interested, there is no commitment in submitting your application. So, go there and have a look and see if this might be something for you.
Morten: Yes.
Lars: Okay.
Morten: Let's move to Back, and now we are at the GGD summer camp again and revisit that. There was a lot of different, what we call it, trainings, if you may, or presentation there.
Lars: Yeah, different tracks, right? That was one of the new things this year. So we had, we just, just a few more participants than previous years. So I think we just crossed the 60 people this year, which also seems like that's a good place for us to be. At least I spoke to a number of people that said, you know, this is, uh, this is probably a good level. We don't want to go too far. We want to be able to say hi to everyone. Um, so, so probably this is the level that we will, will stay at and set the, uh, the ticket limit, uh, ticket limit to. That was, that was sort of one thing. The other thing was new compared to previous years was the community-focused, meaning that we had a lot of focus on the community delivering and participating in this year's Summer Camp. So that meant that we had multiple tracks at 3 different times throughout the, the weekend, which was both really good and really bad because at least the number of people that I wanted, they wanted to attend all 3. And that's genuinely the case. There was none, none of the sessions that I did not want to, to also be at. I was able to this year actually be a bit more of an attendee. So I was able to join some of those different tracks and we can, we can talk about the ones that we, we both attended, but that was sort of the, the difference from previous years and a lot of fun and really great that people were able to sort of go towards the one that they wanted to hear more about. And perhaps we need to, I think we'll, we'll do some of the same next year because this was a really good way to go. But yeah, still planning for next year. So we'll pick that up soon.
Morten: Yeah. And then, you know, the picking among good ones. So what I did was, since I am also the publicly, what do you call, publicly announced photographer for the event, I hovered in almost all of the rooms. So I went silently in, took some photos, made some video, and then snuck out. So I didn't get really to see everything, but one session that stood out for me was the one about neurodiversity. It was 3 different people delivering about, you know, about neurodiversity and some very touching, you know, really personal stories there. I will not go into them, but it was really very interesting. And for me, as a non-divergent, is that possible to say?
Lars: So yeah, so at least that the tagline was, you know, GTD and neurodiversity inspiration, presentations, and time to discuss working with GTD as a neurodivergent. Time to Improve Your GTD System in Practice. That was the tagline for that, that track. I would have loved to be in there. That sounds so interesting.
Morten: Yes, and it was really, and there was some really, you know, interesting stories that illuminates the challenges that the neurodivergent person have. And it helped me to understand that this is out there. It's normal. You're, uh, it's, you know, old. And, and people can look like, you know, if you look at the public perception maybe on someone who is not on the— that someone is about, what's it called, being on the spectrum, where you have neurodiversity as part of your being. But a lot of people, you can't see that they are on that spectrum. Suddenly you understand that, well, they are, because they will either tell you or they will demonstrate for you what's happening to them, even though they don't maybe know that you can see it on them. So, but it is something that's out there. We need to be mindful about it. We need to be understanding about this. There is a lot of things we don't understand in this world. And the more we understand about how it's being and what does it entail to be a neurodivergent person, that's good because then we will not have biases. We will have facts and understanding. And I love that. So thank you. You know, there's 3 people who participated in sharing there. You know who you are. And thank you. It helped me. So anything else that stood out for you, Lars, or would you like to—.
Lars: Yeah, I think there were a couple that sort of— So the way I approached it was that I looked at where the most people went, and then I went to the one with the least At S&D, I figured that has to be the most nerdy one, that has to be the one where I'll pick up some gold. So, so that's, uh, that was my strategy. Uh, it was also a nice way to avoid, avoid choosing. Um, but, uh, no, I don't know if actually that was the— I don't know if that was actually the case, whether there was, uh, fewer people there. But one of them that I went to was, as you know, the, uh, the fountain pen mafia is slowly dragging me in. I think I mentioned in a previous episode that I was gifted another 2 pens now. So I have one here with me. I have the one in my bag. I have one— I have them all over the place now. And I— one of the things that I took away from one of the sessions was that I went over to a session called Pen and Paper Loves GCD, again with the 2 gentlemen previously mentioned, Joost and Sebastian. And talking about that and different ways to incorporate paper in your GTD system. And obviously, that's, you know, that GTD goes way, way back and paper has always been an integral part. And at least I've heard from a couple of people that read the book and felt it wasn't for them simply because of the references to paper. But paper still has its place and perhaps will have its place even more going forward, at least that's maybe a personal preference for me, but I'm starting to like paper more. And one of the things that I'm playing with as a consequence of having attended that track was to have a daily checklist on paper. So I have my sort of starting point with a, what I would probably call a daily overview where I'll check my my calendar. I'll do a quick scan of all my work-related stuff with projects, next actions. I'll do a quick check on, on due in my reminders and, and due in, in our CRM system. And the last step is then to, okay, so looking at my calendar, looking at, you know, now that I know what I'm gonna do or what I could be doing, what do I actually want to do today? So I have created a small template for myself. I've laminated it. And I have a pen that I can write on. And then, and that'll be sort of my system as a starting point for, for that day. And it's so far, I don't have enough experience to, to, to really say what it does, but at least it helps me be much more mindful of how many things that I will get done in any given day. Because we've spoken about this before, so I can mention that again on the podcast. I, I am I'm so optimistic in how much I think I can get done. So this really helps me, just the fact that I have to sit, look at my screen, say, yeah, I'm gonna do that one, then sit down and write it manually and by hand on that laminated checklist. You know, if we were to talk 12 months ago, then I would say never, I'm never gonna do that. Why not have it all digital? And now it's starting to, yeah, starting to dawn on me that maybe there's a a good mix here, and that's actually a very helpful way to do it. So, yeah, thanks to the Fountain Pen Mafia guys, you know who you are, and thanks to you, Sebastian, for sharing some tips, you know, that came from a simple, small daily checklist. I think Sebastian shared, that's the one that I at least have a found a picture of in my phone, and I think that that's sort of where it started and then mixed with my own daily template, and now I have a template that I'm trying out. I really, really like that. And I think that'll help me a lot going forward. So thanks, guys.
Morten: Yeah, well, experimentation is important in getting things done, as you know, as we know, to try and find the system that works best for you. And life changes and what works today might not work tomorrow or next week.
Lars: But that's actually one of the reasons why— that is actually one of the reasons why I would I would highly recommend to go to the summer camp because again, coming back to, I think Ida said it in, in her beginning as well, the initial part of her email, thanks for the inspiration. And that's, that's a lot of what it does. And I think perhaps this year even, even more than in previous years because there were so many different tracks and so many different discussions happening, you know, around the, the different tables. It was really an inspiring time this year and, and, and that, yeah, refreshes and helps your GTD practice going forward.
Morten: There is always something new that you can pick up on there. There's something, something you haven't looked at. And that I was going to say, the fountain pen mafia at the summer camp haven't gotten to me fully yet because I think they understand that I do actually have fountain pens, that I sometimes use them. But it's, so I'm sure that if I say what I'm going to say now is that I need to find really good writing paper. Because I've acquired a new pen, or it's a pencil, actually. It looks like this. If you're on the— I don't know if you can see this, but this, if you're on the— if you look at this on the YouTube, you will see there's a pen, and it is actually a pencil, but it's a mechanical pencil that looks like a pencil. Where you have, you can extract and what do you call it? What's this motion called? Clicking? Clicking? It's a clicking pencil that looks like an old school pencil, a little one. And I've got that. And then I started taking notes. I understand my paper is not very good. I need to find better paper to write on because it's a little coarse feeling. So, Fountain Pen Mafia, if you're here, send me your best, best recommendations for good paper to write with pencil, not, you know, not on the fountain pen, but okay.
Lars: So, oh yeah, and one thing that I've learned, um, now that we're anyway talking about this, um, I actually write nicer with the fountain pen without even trying. So I think that's probably the, the friction of the paper that actually helped me. So, so one of the things that was holding me back was that, well, my handwriting is so horrible that I don't know if I would be able to read it. Well, actually, the simple step of having good writing tools will, will help you. So just a tease for those of you who are still on the fence and saying, no, I don't want to do that. Well, maybe, maybe you should try it out.
Morten: It can be that you are a truly digital person feeling that what we are talking about now is just nonsense. But if you find some good writing tools and just try, just see how it works. It might have a place in your GTD system. At least for me, some of the things when I do a mind sweep, I love paper because it's faster. And, but, you know, when, if I do an odd, you know, capture during the day, it will be digital most likely. But if I do a mind sweep where I really want to empty up what I want to think about, Like, let's say I do a natural planning model for one of the, one, a new project. I prefer paper, it's faster. And yeah, so, okay. I think we have exhausted our two topics for today. I don't know, do you have something?
Lars: Actually, I have, well, two quick ones. So just to wrap us up, because there were two more things that as we looked back at the photos and at the at the program. You know, there were some, again, some good sessions, especially, you know, really enjoyed the— we had an hour down memory lane with David on stage. That was so much fun. Obviously mostly, mostly David thinking back to different, you know, memories about GDT. Now the two things that I wanted to highlight was also the other mafia that's got to me, which was the the, there was a track called Simplification and Automation with the guy at Torbjörn and then, and Michael, two of the trainers from Denmark and guy from Norway. The tagline or the description was presentation about automation, about simplification, and then sort of a hands-on session. And one of the automation approaches and one of the ones that we see year after year, and we see some people even bringing them to the summer camp and have them on the table next to their computer was the Stream Deck. And they finally, they finally won me over with some of the suggestions. So I had to go out there and, and buy a Stream Deck. So I have this on my desk right here. I've started to play with it, start to integrate it with my, my daily checklist. So while I still have that, as I mentioned, on laminated paper, there are different steps that I need to get that overview, look at my calendar, look at my juice, look at my things in our CRM system. So I'll have links for that. I'll have links to empty my inboxes. I have the links to the different buttons to the different inboxes. So I have all of that set up. So helping me so far, yes. I think there's a lot more to be gained once I really get all of it set up. So, but I wanted to give a shout out as well to that team. And the last one I wanted to mention Or sorry, did you want to—.
Morten: I just want to butt in and say that, you know, Gjallarhorn, the Norwegian you were talking about, has been a nerd on this for a long time. And actually, I am using Stream Deck as we speak because when I switch the cameras, that's my Stream Deck buttons. And it has— going back to the why physical buttons are cool is because if you've ever been in a Tesla trying to adjust some, you know, some adjustment buried in menus, you understand if it was a button, it would be faster and more easily. So, okay. Please carry on.
Lars: Now, the last shout out I wanted to give was, was actually a brief, brief GTD story that was shared Sunday morning with, by Anne and Fedder, who had done their own mini retreat. So, and not to take anything away from the, the Masterclass retreat that we, we just, we just promoted, but they had done their own retreat at the beginning of the year, rented a summer house,, all GTDers just looking for that space and time to sit down and work with their system, work on their own, work together, inspire each other. Um, and just a quick outline of what they did. And, um, I just wanted to throw that out there as well to the, to the world that if you are somewhere and, uh, the Masterclass retreat is not an option for you, or this sounds inspiring and you maybe know some GTDers that would help them as well to do this retreat, then by all means. So, you know, they had a good outline. I think we can probably find that if people ask for it. We can probably share that in how they had approached and done their planning and set everything up. And it sounded like they had a really good time. And we all know the value of being able to sit down and think those you know, higher horizon thoughts and try to do some planning and get inspired about the future. And I just wanted to share that idea because I think there, I think there are some people out there that would really benefit from having this time and sitting down and thinking on their own together and getting that Horizons of Focus document up to date. So that was the last one I wanted to mention as well. I thought that was really inspiring. It sounded like they It was a lot of fun and.
Morten: Really valuable. One of the things that I don't know if people, we've been mentioning this, but one of the things that, one of the reasons or probably the biggest reason of why the summer camp actually exists was that there was a retreat with 2 or 3 members from the, you know, the GTD community in Denmark that decided we will take a weekend together and we will do something. And they came out and somebody mentioned 'Oh, we should make a, you know, we should make a camp of it.' And my reply was something like, I'm— if I— I don't remember exactly, but at the effect of, 'If you make one, I'll be there.' And then the rest is history, and suddenly we have a summer camp. So that's the stories that, you know, the small things that you can do, and suddenly universe sees it and suddenly you have something that's valuable. And where you meet people who are interested in the same thing, it is always good. It's always, you know, if it is, you know, your local football club or your, you know, church or your meetup for crochet or, you know, the summer camp or whatever, where people have the same ideas about something and meet, it's always a good thing. And if you don't know someone who I want to make this. There is meetup.com groups around the world for GTD, and see if there's no one in your area or town or country, make one, create one, see if somebody else— that's what I did back in 2008, and now there is more than 1,000 members in the Oslo GTD Gathering. So that's, it's cool. You can start something because you want to have somebody to nerd with. Suddenly this happens. Okay, will you take us out, Lars?
Lars: I'm happy to. And well, we already did it, but I'm going to do it anyway because we always wrap up with a reminder to go to the GTD Summer Camp site and have a look around, um, gtdsommercamp.com. Um, so we'll do it again, of course, in 2026. By the time this is out, we probably have some more things settled. If we don't, you can always email me and I will let you know when the sign-up available. We have the dates, but we haven't confirmed them yet with the venue. So I'll, maybe I'll have the show notes updated. So we won't have this in the podcast, but maybe in the show notes you'll see it. In any case, gtdsummercamp.com is a good place to go because there you'll find all of the information that we have at any given time. Then we also always mention vitallearning.eu. That is sort of the main page for all of the countries in the Nordics Plus, where you can find more information about what we do, find more information about GTD coaching, Crucial Conversations training, GTD trainings. We do one as part of the summer camp as well. So, so go there and have a look around. You'll find your way through the different country websites and, and learn more. You can schedule meetings with Morten and I, anything you need. You'll find your way through mytelearning.eu. And if you're outside the Nordics plus, then cruciallearning.com is the place to go.
Morten: To find your local partners. Indeed. And, um, I will then do what I've always done at the end of every podcast. I will say this: stay safe and stay productive. Take care.
Lars: Bye-bye. Bye everyone.
